Anybody STILL a Darth Vader fan?

[bigbarada]

If you grew up with the OT version of Darth Vader in the 70s and 80s, did your appreciation of the character suffer any from the Prequels?

I remember Vader being this ultra-powerful bad guy when I was a kid and I was more than a little fascinated with that. He never showed any emotion or frustration, even when things weren't going his way and he was completely cold-hearted (until his redemption, of course).

Now he is just this whiny little brat who got what was coming to him.

However, regardless of Lucas' best efforts to completely ruin the character, I find myself still liking Darth Vader... a lot. The TRUE Darth Vader, though, not that fake one that we saw in Ep3 (wearing too much eyeliner and screaming in anguish over Padme's death :rolleyes: ).

So is anyone else able to look past the Prequels and appreciate Vader for who he was prior to 1999?

[El Chuxter]

Despite it all, yes.

The novelizations, again, do a better job of dealing with this than the actual prequels. Especially the ending of the ROTS novel, where we actually get in Vader's head for about a page, and see what kind of hell he's stuck in. Which is why I think of them as three okay movies based on three great books.

[bigbarada]

I read the EP1 novelization and it was pretty good. The plot didnt seem to drag nearly as much as it did in the movie. But, I didn't read the novelizations of Ep2 or 3, so maybe that's why I'm less forgiving of those two movies.

I believe Darth Vader's fall should have been a very cerebral and dark story and treating it like a lighthearted action flick definitely created the wrong tone.

[El Chuxter]

Definitely check out the other two novelizations (as well as the tie-ins, Labyrinth of Evil, Dark Lord, and, to a lesser extent, The Approaching Storm). Salvatore and especially Stover do an excellent job with turning what they're given (meaning early scripts of the movies) into awesome novels.

[Kidhuman]

I have no qualms with Vader, no matter how much of a pansy the PT made him out to be, he still turned into the badass as we know him.

[stillakid]

Darth Vader, yes. Whine-akin with a mask, no.

While we are never truly privy to the OT Vader's tangible motivations for siding with Palpatine, there is a sense that the man inside is essentially very rational despite his sometimes brutal methods. Whatever it was that drove him to the Darkside, it was likely for arguably reasonable reasons. Perhaps a very sincere desire to fix a broken Republic...believing lies from an ambitious politician during the dangerous period of his training...just as Obi Wan described it.

Whatever the real cause for Anakin "turning," he is a man in control and there is no reason to suspect that he was ever any other way.


Then there is the disconnect. The reimagining of so many things Star Wars when the Prequels rewrote the established continuity. Vader's implied and not-so-implied past was just one of the many things altered, presumably for fanboywankoff marketing reasons. Who knows. What we do know is that the Vader of the Prequels is intensely irrational, perhaps even bipolar, and extremely juvenile. Moments of the Prequels wish us to believe that Whine-akin has an educated grasp over politics to the point where he would be comfortable sitting in on a discussion with Bill Moyers. But regardless of his political leanings and how well or not he understands it all, we are eventually shown that his only reason for going bad was to obtain the secret to saving Padme's life.... not only a selfish motivation, but one rendered 100% moot merely 15 seconds after he pledges himself to the Darkside. In addition, his reason for turning was to save Padme's life (per his masturba ... er, nightmare scene earlier in the film). Ironically, it is he who chokes Padme and tries to kill her, once again, because of his irrationality. The sustaining note of the Prequel Anakins is that he is wholly irrational and unpredictable in every way. This is not necessarily an inherent flaw if it was a stand-alone character. However because this "Vader" is supposed to be the same rational Vader we already know from later episodes, something is awry in Star Wars-ville.


So, it is impossible for any reasonable person to look upon both versions of Vader and only see one character. It is like suggesting that a young Charles Manson grows up to become Saddam Hussein. Both are undoubtedly evil, yet the first is truly whacked in the head while the second at least has some sense of purpose to his cause, misguided as it is.

Prequel Vader is NOT Original Trilogy Vader by any definition, so the initial question can't really be answered in a direct way. I suppose it is possible to find value in both (though I can't fathom what anyone could ever enjoy about the Whine-akin version of the character), so someone could say, "yes, I like Darth Vader.... BOTH versions of him."

[2-1B]

I like Vader even more because of the prequels.

[Rocketboy]

Vader is awesome.

[JON9000]

1. I don't know if I can look back pre-1999 when thinking of Vader, because it never occurred to me to try.

2. I don't have a problem with young Anakin, although it is very tough to imagine that little peanut head in TPM growing up to be so mean.

3. It must really chap y'alls' behinds that young Anakin got inserted into ROTJ, thereby reminding you there at the end of prequel heaven! lol

[stillakid]

3. It must really chap y'alls' behinds that young Anakin got inserted into ROTJ, thereby reminding you there at the end of prequel heaven! lol


I don't make a habit of watching any of the six movies very often, but I did very recently decide to do a mini-marathon and saw them all in the space of a few days. The inserted Bipolar-akin into the end of ROTJ still seems just wrong for a great many reasons. The character that Jake played just doesn't translate to the Hayden version which in turn in no way can possibly develop into the David Prowse/James Earl Jones version. The saga has three distinct characters all claiming the same name(s).

It would be like showing a young Leia Organa who is nothing but a ditzy shopping-mall type girl who cares more about chipping a nail and reading the latest fashion mags and then expecting the audience to believe she turns into a die-hard Rebel who devotes her life to an important cause. Possible? Maybe, but highly unlikely. It's not that a superficial teenage girl can't "grow up" and refashion her life to serve a greater cause, but a complete "Ditz!" will always be that kind of superficial personae no matter what road she chooses...she'll just be a superficial ditz with a protest sign. We see no evidence of that kind of fundamental short-skirt wearing fashion slave ditz in the OT Leia so it would be hard to swallow that she ever was anything less than an intelligent, poised, and determined individual.

[bigbarada]

I don't have as much of a problem with the EP1 Anakin and believe that, if Ep2 and 3 had been better written, he would have fit in well with Darth Vader's "tragic" past.

Kid Anakin had that sort of super optimism that, once crushed by events in the future, could have easily created the bitter, cold-hearted individual that Vader turned out to be.

[TheDarthVader]

Check out my forum name. The short answer is yes. I still like Darth Vader; one of my favorite characters!

[JediTricks]

The prequels didn't affect Vader for me because he's just not in them. There's not 1 moment in the prequels where it seems like that's the same character that'll become Vader in Ep 4, not even when he puts on the armor in Ep 3- he's got TINY hands for gourd's sake! And he doesn't DO anything once it's on in Ep 3, he has that goofy "noooooooo" and then that's pretty much it. There's a total disconnect between Darth Vader and the prequels character of Anakin Skywalker, not even the Ep 6 Anakin Skywalker seems to be connected to that prequel character.

What's really weird is that Boba Fett is kinda ruined by the prequels.

[stillakid]

What's really weird is that Boba Fett is kinda ruined by the prequels.
Agreed. Sometimes in film and literature there is more said when more is left unsaid. Inventing and showing the audience an entire past that "creates" Boba Fett was A) unnecessary and B) destructive. When we all saw ESB way back when, there was a coolness about that character that derived from the mystery of Fett as well as the way he was always quick and to the point... no extraneous talk or action. Only what is necessary. Which just happens to be what was cool about Vader. I think that their commonality is what made Vader and Fett icons of the OT. But coincidentally (or not), George decided that we had to see the origin stories of both, thus taking away one of the major things that made them so beloved in the first place.

[El Chuxter]

It's like Wolverine. Knowing bits and pieces is fine. Hell, even having read Weapon X, Origin, and the billion other stories that give little bits and pose new questions, it's nice to have a lot of info but still not the whole picture.

With Wolvie now, or Boba for that matter, there's no mystery left. The appeal of the character is gone.

[Qui-Long Gone]

VADER RULES

The prequels did nothing to destory the Frankenstien-turned-redeemed-anti-hero that is Dath Vader..

Great Villian...

Great Character Conflict...

Most surprising moment in movie history: So if you're my father, how old was Leia when mom died?

Great final blow to the Emperor....et tu brute?

Great death scene!

The prequels did nothing to help any character: Yoda was too agile...Obi was too wooden....Anakin was to not convincing....3PO and R2 too underused...Chewie too unnecessary....and Jabba too digital

Although the Emperor had a nice storyline.....

[2-1B]

The prequels are what makes Vader so great. Without them, he's just a two dimensional baddie. At least he is now fleshed out into a better character. Nobody really cared about him before they started making the first 3 episodes.

[bigbarada]

The prequels are what makes Vader so great. Without them, he's just a two dimensional baddie. At least he is now fleshed out into a better character. Nobody really cared about him before they started making the first 3 episodes.

lol lol lol lol

Oh wait, you're serious.:rolleyes:

You can't really "ruin" a character that no one cares about and the notion that the prequels have "ruined" Darth Vader pretty much proves that plenty of people cared about him prior to 1999.

I know I did, he was one of my all-time favorite movie characters for a good chunk of my childhood.

[2-1B]

Oh wait, you're serious.:rolleyes:


I am ? lol

[stillakid]

Nobody really cared about him before they started making the first 3 episodes.

He lost in the US Postal Service stamp contest. :(

[2-1B]

Exactly, he got fewer votes than Jar Jar. lol

[Qui-Long Gone]

That doesn't prove anything good or bad about our love for Vader....


The only good use of a Vader stamp would be on bill....either getting a bill or paying it....





Who wants to lick all that metal anyways....Yoda probably tastes like chicken.