How trooper packs SHOULD be

[JediTricks]

This cannot be that difficult Hasbro! These are the ones you want to take to mass-market, simple yet effective, cheaper because there are multiples of the same mold in 1 box. The figures mentioned below should be the BEST possible versions, even if those aren't the newest versions, and there should be rifles and pistols for everybody. Each figure should have different battle weathering paint jobs from each other.

TPM:
- Trade Federation -
3 Battle Droids
1 Destroyer Droid
(Battle Droids can be offered recolored as well)

- Naboo -
1 Naboo Soldier (Ep 1 version, new less-stupid head)
1 Naboo Guard
2 Gungan Soldiers
(shortpack this set until it proves itself a seller)

AOTC:
- Villains -
2 Super Battle Droids
2 Geonosians
(Geonosian sculpt should be Sun Fac body)

- Clones -
3 Super Articulated AOTC Clone Troopers
1 Super Articulated Clone Trooper with command coloring and removable helmet
(colors can be changed for later releases)

ROTS:
- Clones -
4 Super Articulated ROTS Clone Troopers
(troopers should have matching colors, multiple colorschemes should be offered from the outset)

- Clone Command -
1 Cody
1 Bacara (should use Super Articulated body)
1 Clone Sniper
1 Clone Commander (should use Super Articulated body)
(multiple colorschemes should be offered from the outset, Clone Commander could be swapped in some sets for an improved Gree figure offered with only a few colorschemes)

- More Clones -
1 AT-RT Pilot
1 Airborne Trooper
2 Galactic Marines

ANH:
- Rebels -
3 Rebel Fleet Troopers
1 Rebel Pilot

- Tatooine Imperials -
3 Super Articulated Sandtroopers (varied pauldron colors)
1 Super Articulated Dirty Stormtrooper

- Stormtroopers -
4 Super Articulated Stormtroopers
(should be heavily shipped)

- More Imperials -
1 Death Star Gunner
1 TIE Pilot
1 Death Star Trooper
1 Imperial Officer (generic)

ESB:
- Hoth Rebels -
3 Hoth Rebel Soldiers (varied faces)
1 Hoth Rebel Officer

- Hoth Imperials -
2 AT-AT Drivers
1 AT-AT Commander (generic head on Veers)
1 AT-ST Driver

- Snowtroopers -
3 Snowtroopers (need new mold!!!)
1 Snowtrooper Commander

ROTJ:
- Endor Rebel Troops -
2 TSC white Trooper
1 TSC black Trooper
1 Saga Endor Trooper
(shortpack this one till it proves itself a seller)

- Endor Imperials -
3 VTSC Biker Scouts
1 POTJ Imperial Officer

- Outsiders -
2 VTSC Tuskens
2 Ewoks (Ewoks should be generic but different from each other, offer multiple colorschemes on him)
(shortpack this one till it proves itself a seller)

[El Chuxter]

110% in agreeance. I'd also recommend, as another two shortpacks, Ewoks and Tusken Raiders (including the woman and child).

[JediTricks]

On the ROTS Clones, I originally had it:

3 ROTS Clone Troopers
1 Commander (rotating commander figures)

but that idea didn't quite work for me, so I changed it, added the commander pack with rotate-in Gree figure instead, with multiple colorschemes that one should be moving ok.


Chux, I added an "outsiders" set with 2 tuskens and 2 generic ewoks, originally I had 1 Jawa and 1 Ugnaught as well but that didn't make sense. I left off the Tusken woman out of my list because there weren't many of her and she wasn't a fighter. They could shoehorn her in there though since 2 Ewoks really only equals 1 figure.

[pegger]

Snowtrooper should be SA too.

I would also add 4 rebel pilots - use Dutch Vander or VTSC Luke body and vary heads/removeable helmet patterns.

[jedi master sal]

I've posted lists like this many tiems. Good job JT.

I'd also add that when selling LIKE figures like these, sell them cheaper please!!. No you don't need to break the bank and loose money. But $20 for a four troop asortment is reasonable, $16-18 would be ideal.

Also, no gimmicky packaging. NO need to pack these in huge freakin' boxes like the battle packs. Stick them in a smaller box, no window, OR a large card. Thoug I'd prefer the small box myself.

Smaller packages take up less space on the shelves and retailers hold precious there "real estate."

Oh I want to elaborate on one of the sets JT mentioned. The ROTS variations would look something like this:
1 Cody, 3 Utapau troopers OR
1 Gree, 3 Kashyyk troopers (oh and for the love of pete, PLEASE fix Gree color scheme) OR
1 Bacara, Galactic Marines OR
1 Bly (latest issue with teh brown detailing), 3 ROTS Evolution troopers (the yellow ones of course) OR
1 Appo, 3 JTA clones (the #6 mold that came in the JTA battle packs) or an all new one using the #41 sculpt OR
Grey ROTS Evolutions commander, 3 more just like him, without the kama and paulron.
Neyo, Neyo grunts (new helmet mold otherwise nearly the same as the Target clone and including the smaller chest/shoulder armor)
Deviss, 3 Shocktroopers (yeah he wasn't their commander, but the color scheme works.)

Personally I'd rather see these sets without ANY commanders and rather that you make a Clone commander set. Given that I listed 8 of them above you can split those up into 2 sets of four. Though to be fair, pack two more popular ones with two not as popular to sell them.

Who are the 4 more popular ones? Cody, Gree, and Bly are defintely in the top 4. Neyo would be new, so he'd be popular from the outset. The grey Commander Clone was a little hard to come by, so people might be excited at getting him. Appo is new and a decent sculpt so he'd rank up there a bit. Only ones not so popular would be Deviss (red Commander) and Bacara. So make sure to split those two up.

Okay? Thanks.

[jedi master sal]

Oh yeah and if you need a reminder that we've been asking about these, here's another post in these very forums regarding army building sets:
http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=31150

Note the date of Feb 2006....We WANT THESE HASBRO!!!! Not some gimmicky "collectible" tin (as in collecting dust on the shelves...) Just plain and simple army builders in small packaging and at a reasonable price.

[Kidhuman]

I'd buy most of em


Isobars&

[2-1B]

120% agreement with Chux's 110% agreeance with JT.

[El Chuxter]

So, in other words, you're 132% in agreeance with JT, then.

[pbarnard]

I'd be all for this if the Rebel troopers, no matter the type, should be a rotating alien say Sullustan, Gotal, Mon Cal or Bothan (or Dresselian for the Endor Troops).

[TheCivilCollector]

This sounds more along the lines of "Dream Pack for Army Builders". No heroes, no main characters. I garauntee, without a doubt, that every single figure on that list except for the clone troopers would sit on the shelves after collectors get thier fill.

Now, what Hasbro SHOULD do to pacify army-builders is to make massive amounts of bagged versions (no card) available online for a lower price-point. They started that awhile agao and quit. Anyone know why?

[Jargo]

I don't think I'd buy any of those packs. maybe the ewoks.

[figrin bran]

just to balance out Mr. Daddypants i would buy most of those packs :D

[Phantom-like Menace]

Army building with Star Wars is distressing. You have four options.

First, you can comb the entirety of creation trying to put an army together trooper by trooper. This is expensive, time consuming and often ends in wasting a lot of time finding nothing, though I will admit lately single-carded clone releases have been plentiful--most likely due to overwhelming, undeniable demand.

Second, you can buy Battle Packs. These will range from not too difficult to find (meaning you don't need to show up exactly as the product hits the floor, stiff-arm and hip-check your way into the fray and launch yourself upon your item while screaming wildly that you have a gun), to severely difficult to find and for some reason tend to be padded out with figures no one (no one) has any interest in purchasing one of let alone several of.

Third, you can occasionally go to a site with an exclusive army builder, a site like EE, which has had several in the past. These sets, by their very nature as exclusives, have to be marked up so much that it prohibits buying an army of them, so they are not in fact army builders.

Fourth--and this only goes for Clone Wars-related armies--you can come by the three-pack, preposed clones without breaking the bank, but you end up with an entire army in three poses (two if you get the ones from the DVD tie-in), and none of them can stand at attention, which is what nine-tenths of us do with our clones anyway.

I'm willing to allow I'm without suggestions, and to tell you the truth, I'm sick of trying to come up with suggestions, but it's not my job to come up with a solution, it's Hasbro's job. I don't know if it's Lucasfilm, Hasbro, retailers, or the consumer to blame, but I imagine it's such a rat's nest of all of the above that everyone is just muddling through.

I don't know, I'm at work, and I'm still smack in the middle of forty-eight hours of almost continuous work with the dregs of society, so my antipathy toward everything and everybody is bleading into my post. Each time I rewrite the preceding paragraph it gets more and more depressed and less relevant to the topic at hand. So, aside from the below which was written before this paragraph, I'm done.

I'd be all for this if the Rebel troopers, no matter the type, should be a rotating alien say Sullustan, Gotal, Mon Cal or Bothan (or Dresselian for the Endor Troops).

Ah, but they have to be Sullustans, Gotals, Mon Cals, and Dresselians that were seen in the movie or they would be :shocked: EU:shocked: .

[JediTricks]

For me, you guys know I'm a bit stingey and unfavorable to prequel stuff, but with these, I can say that I'd get all of the sets I listed at least 1 version of, here's what I'd get:
2x Trade Federation
1x Naboo
2x AOTC Villains
1x AOTC Clones
3x ROTS Clones
2x Clone Command
2x More Clones
1x Rebels
1x Tatooine Imperials
5x Stormtroopers (maybe more)
2x More Imperials
2x Hoth Rebels
1x Hoth Imperials
2x Snowtroopers (likely 3 if the figures are good)
1x Endor Rebel Troops
2x Endor Imperials
1x Outsiders

That's 31 sets from a guy who is conservative about his SW collecting right now.

Snowtrooper should be SA too. Absolutely! A new superior body is what I'm hoping to see.

I would also add 4 rebel pilots - use Dutch Vander or VTSC Luke body and vary heads/removeable helmet patterns.This is not something I think would have broad appeal simply because the X-wing pilots weren't troopers and anybody who wants a lot of 'em could have just bought the Dutch or VTSC Luke on clearance, I did include 1 in the Rebel Troopers set, I suppose if there was enough interest that could change to go:
2 Rebel Fleet Troopers
2 Rebel X-wing Pilots (generic head)

That to me seems like a good compromise, I don't think a 4pack or even 3pack of pilots will have mass appeal but that might.


I've posted lists like this many tiems. Good job JT.Thanks. I really hope Hasbro listens.

I'd also add that when selling LIKE figures like these, sell them cheaper please!!. No you don't need to break the bank and loose money. But $20 for a four troop asortment is reasonable, $16-18 would be ideal.$18 is exactly the number I was thinking of.

Also, no gimmicky packaging. NO need to pack these in huge freakin' boxes like the battle packs. Stick them in a smaller box, no window, OR a large card. Thoug I'd prefer the small box myself.

Smaller packages take up less space on the shelves and retailers hold precious there "real estate."Yeah, keep packaging costs down on these, bag up the accessories and use the most simple window possible - the trays are remarkably cheap, just a bottom tray and top tray then you don't actually need a window OR twisties!

Plus, these are troop packs, they're meant to be OPENED, no need for fancy.

Personally I'd rather see these sets without ANY commanders and rather that you make a Clone commander set. Given that I listed 8 of them above you can split those up into 2 sets of four. Though to be fair, pack two more popular ones with two not as popular to sell them. Yeah, the 4-trooper set offered separately from the Commander set seems like the top way to go, plus you get new rotating colors on the commanders so they could be beyond EU.


I'd be all for this if the Rebel troopers, no matter the type, should be a rotating alien say Sullustan, Gotal, Mon Cal or Bothan (or Dresselian for the Endor Troops).I thought about that, it's an interesting idea, but it's hard to sell the notion of army building aliens when there's not that many of 'em onscreen. It's worth exploring the idea though, I'm just not sure if it'd fit the mass-purchase factor, that's got to be part of this since the money will be made in bulk sales rather than per-unit - but Hasbro's got the molds just sitting there not doing anything else right now, so worth looking into.

This sounds more along the lines of "Dream Pack for Army Builders". No heroes, no main characters. I garauntee, without a doubt, that every single figure on that list except for the clone troopers would sit on the shelves after collectors get thier fill.Guarantees notwithstanding, these seem to me like they're very good for co-sells because you buy the kid 1 good guy box and 1 bad guy box and it's an instant battle for him, then you buy some basic figures to round out the battle and the floor becomes a cool warzone. And at a good price, collectors may NEVER get their fill of these - there'd be no reason to. And Hasbro's been totally blowing it with basic carded army builders anyway, they never ship enough to satiate the market, so it's not like it'll lose those out - any collector, casual or otherwise, who would be willing to buy 2 basic army-builders would be willing to spend $6 more to get 4 of 'em, and basics will still sell to carded collectors.

Now, what Hasbro SHOULD do to pacify army-builders is to make massive amounts of bagged versions (no card) available online for a lower price-point. They started that awhile agao and quit. Anyone know why?They didn't sell all that well, I believe, they had strong initial sales and then tapered off quickly, probably because they were overly-exclusive. Hasbro tried to rebirth them with window boxes and posters, I don't think that got any traction either though.


I don't think I'd buy any of those packs. maybe the ewoks.Please explain why not or risk being labelled a negative-nelly.

[Jargo]

I only collect stuff from Tatooine. I have limited need for any sand/stormtroopers and as they tend to just stand there on my shelf my troop builder four pack of sandtroopers and one POTJ sandtrooper do that job nicely. I also have ten commtech stormtroopers who do me for a very small Endor display.
I could do with some Death star troopers but that's being released next year and hopefully it'll be superior to the ones I have now. In which case I'll buy four.
Scout troppers, well there's the one from POTJ, the VTSC one both still around and I have the POTJ one, will get the VTSC one. don't need any more than that really exept maybe a second VTSC one for a bit of expanded Tatooine.
I have zero interest in troopers from the prequels.
I have zero interest in rebel endor troopers or rebel pilots.
I pass on everything from ESB

so aside from multipacked ewoks, there's nothing listed that gets my interest piqued. If you're wondering why I posted, well everything needs all sides represented. I'm sure trooper packs would sell well but I'd sooner have background characters like aliens and droids. just my preference innit.

[TheCivilCollector]

...collectors may NEVER get their fill of these - there'd be no reason to. And Hasbro's been totally blowing it with basic carded army builders anyway, they never ship enough to satiate the market, so it's not like it'll lose those out - any collector, casual or otherwise, who would be willing to buy 2 basic army-builders would be willing to spend $6 more to get 4 of 'em, and basics will still sell to carded collectors.

Well, you could be right about that. I'll tell you for a fact that I NEVER saw any of the 3 packs they offered (clone wars or episode 3). At all. I'm STILL looking for a reasonably-priced Jedi Knights 3-pack.

So, either people snap them up as soon as they see them, or there were never many that shipped to retailers. Either which proves of course that Hasbro isn't responding to demand.

[Darth Cruel]

I am down for all of the super articulated ones. I do like the thought of an imperial officer (like the black uniformed ones that came in three or four variations during the Saga line), a Death Star Trooper, A Death Star Gunner, and a Tie fighter Pilot (with a new, SA sculpt) as a set.

[Mr. JabbaJohnL]

These ideas are pretty great. Too bad Hasbro will only keep doing things like this as long as they pack main characters in with the troop builders.

Somewhere in there, I'd also like to see the new Naboo Soldier with a larger head, shorter and less bulky arms, and also in the red costume.

I think if Hasbro were to do something like this, they should represent both sides of the battle in one box. For instance, the Geonosis one would have two Republic figures (clone troopers) and two CIS figures (SBD and Geonosian). That way, it appeals to kids in that it's a pre-made battle in a box, and to collectors in that it's an army building opportunity for two different armies at a time.

[jedi master sal]

Now, what Hasbro SHOULD do to pacify army-builders is to make massive amounts of bagged versions (no card) available online for a lower price-point. They started that awhile agao and quit. Anyone know why?
They didn't sell all that well, I believe, they had strong initial sales and then tapered off quickly, probably because they were overly-exclusive. Hasbro tried to rebirth them with window boxes and posters, I don't think that got any traction either though.


I think too part of the thinking was that these sets were going to be around forever. I know the Endor soldiers seemed to be. Even the Stormtroopers were to a point.

We're much more savy now and know certain figures aren't going to be around forever. Hasbor can rerelease army packs all the time and still make money.

Her's an idea, since they gave up the 12inch to Sideshow and SSC is coming out with an "Armies of Star Wars" line, then why not Hasbro?? Undoubtedly retailors would still peg these in the SW section, but they would be a seperate line in that they do NOT have the flavor of the year packaging. You wouldn't see 30th Anniversary packaging on these. This line would be seperate packaging. Nothing fancy as JT and I have discussed.


I think if Hasbro were to do something like this, they should represent both sides of the battle in one box. For instance, the Geonosis one would have two Republic figures (clone troopers) and two CIS figures (SBD and Geonosian). That way, it appeals to kids in that it's a pre-made battle in a box, and to collectors in that it's an army building opportunity for two different armies at a time.

This is an okay idea. Personally I prefer certain army builders over others. I'm not so found of SBDs and still consider the regular Battle Droid to be the grunt army builder of the CIS. Also, there were PLENTY more Geonosians than SBDs in AOTC and while they didn't appear in ROTS I'd still say they outnumber the combined SBDs from both AOTC and ROTS seen on screen. For that reason I'd tend to build more geonosians. (but they need to be great articulation like Sun Fac). So I'd still be a proponent for single character army building packs, though the battle in a package idea can be somthing done ALONG side these. No reason to not do it. It would be more diversity even amongst army building.

[2-1B]

What stillakid said about buckets o' clones.

[JediTricks]

I had an idea for another pack last night for you Ewok fans:
- Ewok Battle -
3 different generic Ewoks
1 VTSC Biker Scout
1 VOTC Stormtrooper
(the troopers would be slightly more battle-worn paintjobs)
This would be the only "battle in a box" set in my list, but I think it'd sell pretty good. Naturally, the Ewok weapons would be bolos, spears, and bows & arrows.

I only collect stuff from Tatooine. I have limited need for any sand/stormtroopers and as they tend to just stand there on my shelf my troop builder four pack of sandtroopers and one POTJ sandtrooper do that job nicely. I also have ten commtech stormtroopers who do me for a very small Endor display.

so aside from multipacked ewoks, there's nothing listed that gets my interest piqued. If you're wondering why I posted, well everything needs all sides represented. I'm sure trooper packs would sell well but I'd sooner have background characters like aliens and droids. just my preference innit.You made the claim without mentioning that you were hyper-niching, I see what you're saying but there's not much informational value of "I wouldn't buy these" from guys who only buy Vaders or Boba Fetts because they are such a small niche. Anyway, thanks for clarifying.


Well, you could be right about that. I'll tell you for a fact that I NEVER saw any of the 3 packs they offered (clone wars or episode 3). At all. I'm STILL looking for a reasonably-priced Jedi Knights 3-pack.I considered putting in a "generic Jedi" multipack in my list, but then I remembered the 3pack you refer to, Hasbro kinda went too cheap with the faces and bodies, and they weren't generic enough, so I didn't include it. Think that's something that should have been included though?

So, either people snap them up as soon as they see them, or there were never many that shipped to retailers. Either which proves of course that Hasbro isn't responding to demand.It's a little of both, plus prior unselling product held up the shelfspace.


Somewhere in there, I'd also like to see the new Naboo Soldier with a larger head, shorter and less bulky arms, and also in the red costume.The new TSC one? There's only 1 or 2 of that guy in the movie, I can't imagine folks wanting to army-build that.

I think if Hasbro were to do something like this, they should represent both sides of the battle in one box. For instance, the Geonosis one would have two Republic figures (clone troopers) and two CIS figures (SBD and Geonosian). That way, it appeals to kids in that it's a pre-made battle in a box, and to collectors in that it's an army building opportunity for two different armies at a time.I don't like "battle in a box" sets much, the fighting armies are usually lopsided so forcing consumers to get equal amounts means they'll be less likely to get the sets. Also, 2 warriors from each side isn't a good looking battle, it's more like a wrestling match.


Her's an idea, since they gave up the 12inch to Sideshow and SSC is coming out with an "Armies of Star Wars" line, then why not Hasbro?? Undoubtedly retailors would still peg these in the SW section, but they would be a seperate line in that they do NOT have the flavor of the year packaging. You wouldn't see 30th Anniversary packaging on these. This line would be seperate packaging. Nothing fancy as JT and I have discussed.Here's the problem, Hasbro knows their product doesn't move as well as it used to and retailers get antsy when shelves fill up for more than a week, so Hasbro's answer is to change the name of the line to fool retailers into thinking it's all new all the time. Your idea is good, but retailers are chicken-s*** about keeping product around like that for too long, so I would suggest Hasbro cheat and use a "Armies of Star Wars" box with a blank sticker slot for the brand of moment they can slap on it, then Hasbro Store Reps can come by every few months and put a new brand sticker over it. :D

[Mr. JabbaJohnL]

The new TSC one? There's only 1 or 2 of that guy in the movie, I can't imagine folks wanting to army-build that.
Look at the back of the card, if you have it. It shows the scene where Obi-Wan frees the pilots, and there's actually quite a few yellows and reds. I wouldn't particularly want to army build him but he'd fit in nicely in a Naboo pack with retooled versions of the Naboo Royal Soldier and Naboo Royal Guard, along with new characters in the costumes of Panaka and Ric Olié.

I don't like "battle in a box" sets much, the fighting armies are usually lopsided so forcing consumers to get equal amounts means they'll be less likely to get the sets. Also, 2 warriors from each side isn't a good looking battle, it's more like a wrestling match.

Well then, they could make the sets bigger (like the Republic Commando vs. Geonosians pack that's coming out soon). But I just think that, in the case of parents buying them for kids, they'd probably be more likely to get one set that has "good guys" and "bad guys" than two separate ones. I understand your point, though.

[Phantom-like Menace]

I think if Hasbro were to do something like this, they should represent both sides of the battle in one box. For instance, the Geonosis one would have two Republic figures (clone troopers) and two CIS figures (SBD and Geonosian). That way, it appeals to kids in that it's a pre-made battle in a box, and to collectors in that it's an army building opportunity for two different armies at a time.

I can only speak for myself, but I only army build clones for the prequels and Imperial troops (mostly Stormies and Scouts) for the sequels. I would prefer to have straight boxes of each so I can better control the number of figures I get. I've got a handful of battle droids and super battle droids, and I'd like to make the choice whether or not to buy more while still getting the figures I want.

I think I'd positively be in a tizzy if we could get even just two-packs of troopers, like the Valor vs. Venom G.I. Joe two-packs. I'd pay $12.99-$14.99 and consider that a positive. I don't care overly much how much they cost just that they are available without trading firstborn children in dark alleys for them. The only thing would be that I would only want to see the SA clone trooper mold for the basic clone, VOTC Stormie (and the sand trooper version), and VTSC Scouts.

In any form, box package with a higher number of troops or blister package with a lower number of troops, I think these should be in a brick and mortar location (in addition to online stores), and rather than sell Wal-Mart, Target, and K Mart on the idea of stocking new product in their precious shelf space (which is apparently better spent overflowing with a glut of the latest movie's product), they should be offered to TRU, whatever is left of KB Toys, comic shops, and e-tailers. I'm not sure if that would mean they are "exclusives" with all the trimmings, since we're not dealing with a store that exclusively gets them rather stores that exclusively don't get them. Further, rather than having Hasbro make one big production batch, and putting them out at these stores one time, I'd want Hasbro to make a smaller amount and allow these stores to order more at a later time if they do well, but I don't know if that is even workable in the we-only-do-it-one-way atmosphere of the business.

There seems to be a huge fault to Hasbro's logic with army builders (or a slight fault to excuses given to us). Hasbro seems to think they won't sell well enough without dangling the hero carrot in front of kids (sorry for any unintentional, graphic mental image), but they seem to think they are too much of a premium to let them go without charging premium prices, and they still can't seem to satisfy demand for them either way.

[jedi master sal]

I think these should be in a brick and mortar location (in addition to online stores), and rather than sell Wal-Mart, Target, and K Mart on the idea of stocking new product in their precious shelf space (which is apparently better spent overflowing with a glut of the latest movie's product), they should be offered to TRU, whatever is left of KB Toys, comic shops, and e-tailers. I'm not sure if that would mean they are "exclusives" with all the trimmings, since we're not dealing with a store that exclusively gets them rather stores that exclusively don't get them. Further, rather than having Hasbro make one big production batch, and putting them out at these stores one time, I'd want Hasbro to make a smaller amount and allow these stores to order more at a later time if they do well, but I don't know if that is even workable in the we-only-do-it-one-way atmosphere of the business.

There seems to be a huge fault to Hasbro's logic with army builders (or a slight fault to excuses given to us). Hasbro seems to think they won't sell well enough without dangling the hero carrot in front of kids (sorry for any unintentional, graphic mental image), but they seem to think they are too much of a premium to let them go without charging premium prices, and they still can't seem to satisfy demand for them either way.

Well said.

Man, I wish hasbro would pony up and say they read our posts, then actually act upon them.

Please hasbro take a look at what we're saying here. We'd buy in the many multiples for sets of army builders such as these. Sell them for a little less to make it easier on us and we WILL buy them. We're getting tired of the premium, or ever raising, prices. Many of us are saying we won't be collecting for much longer. This ISN'T the hollow threats that came before. They are ever so much more the reality. We've either been collecting since the beginning back in the 70s or many for the last 11 years of the modern lines. It's just getting to be too much. Give us what we want and soon. Make it affordable and YOU WILL MAKE MORE MONEY off of us. Sooner rather than later. Take FULL advantage of this line in 2007 and 2008 because sadly I think SW toys are going to take a real HUGE dive. (Especially if you DON'T listen to US the people who REALLY drive this market.) Stores can demand what they want, but if WE don't buy it then what is that saying??

Give us the respect we CONSUMERS deserve and we'll in turn give you our hard earned dollars...

[JediTricks]

Look at the back of the card, if you have it. It shows the scene where Obi-Wan frees the pilots, and there's actually quite a few yellows and reds. I wouldn't particularly want to army build him but he'd fit in nicely in a Naboo pack with retooled versions of the Naboo Royal Soldier and Naboo Royal Guard, along with new characters in the costumes of Panaka and Ric Olié.Yeah, I saw that last night when I found the figure at Target, 3 yellow techs and 2 red techs. This is the only scene I can remember with that many of 'em though. Plus, the figure is butt-ugly with a tiny head and big square body. They're not warriors really, they're just techs, there's 1 scene with 1 of them fighting that I can recall, it's near the end. I just don't see anybody wanting that many of him, some folks want more Gungan soldiers and actual Naboo combat officers but I bet only a tiny fraction of them want multiples of this Tech. I did consider a trenchcoated Naboo Pilot figure and Captain Panaka genericized in my list but they didn't quite fit, might make for a good Battle Pack with 2 pilots, a different ethnicity Captain, and a red and yellow tech... I suppose ditching or swapping the red tech could make the following trooper pack:- Naboo Support -
2 Trenchcoat N1 Pilots (Ric Olie body, new head & coat)
1 generic Captain (Panaka body, new head)
1 "Naboo Soldier" Tech
(Soldier-Tech could running-change yellow to red, set should be shortpacked until it proves itself)
Well then, they could make the sets bigger (like the Republic Commando vs. Geonosians pack that's coming out soon). But I just think that, in the case of parents buying them for kids, they'd probably be more likely to get one set that has "good guys" and "bad guys" than two separate ones. I understand your point, though.Boxes with 6 or more will be big, take up too much shelf real-estate, cost too much, and end up with figures that army-builders will toss aside, I'd really hate to see them go down this path especially since I think we all know Hasbro will want to shoehorn a non-army-builder into that box.

In any form, box package with a higher number of troops or blister package with a lower number of troops, I think these should be in a brick and mortar location (in addition to online stores), and rather than sell Wal-Mart, Target, and K Mart on the idea of stocking new product in their precious shelf space (which is apparently better spent overflowing with a glut of the latest movie's product), they should be offered to TRU, whatever is left of KB Toys, comic shops, and e-tailers. I'm not sure if that would mean they are "exclusives" with all the trimmings, since we're not dealing with a store that exclusively gets them rather stores that exclusively don't get them. Further, rather than having Hasbro make one big production batch, and putting them out at these stores one time, I'd want Hasbro to make a smaller amount and allow these stores to order more at a later time if they do well, but I don't know if that is even workable in the we-only-do-it-one-way atmosphere of the business.The minute you exclude Target & WM you make these exclusives and shoot their prices way up, what Hasbro could do is offer them a slower stream and smaller amounts, ensure they'll only continue sending them the cases as long as they want them.

You are totally right that they shouldn't be a single batch firing, these should be fired off quarterly or quicker, and kept going constantly rather than 1 quick shipment.


Man, I wish hasbro would pony up and say they read our posts, then actually act upon them.

Please hasbro take a look at what we're saying here. We'd buy in the many multiples for sets of army builders such as these. Sell them for a little less to make it easier on us and we WILL buy them. We're getting tired of the premium, or ever raising, prices. Many of us are saying we won't be collecting for much longer. This ISN'T the hollow threats that came before. They are ever so much more the reality. We've either been collecting since the beginning back in the 70s or many for the last 11 years of the modern lines. It's just getting to be too much. Give us what we want and soon. Make it affordable and YOU WILL MAKE MORE MONEY off of us. Sooner rather than later. Take FULL advantage of this line in 2007 and 2008 because sadly I think SW toys are going to take a real HUGE dive. (Especially if you DON'T listen to US the people who REALLY drive this market.) Stores can demand what they want, but if WE don't buy it then what is that saying??

Give us the respect we CONSUMERS deserve and we'll in turn give you our hard earned dollars...Yeah, of all the things that I think would keep me going in this line, I think offering respectful, well-thought-out army building sets at good prices like those listed in this thread is the thing that is going to keep my interest alive.

And it's not just hardcore collectors, Hasbro wants the kid market badly, but they're pricing well beyond the kid market right now and most kids who aren't into it yet are not going to be drawn in if they get 1 single figure as a gift, however if Hasbro were to make the sets we suggest and a kid gets a small army all at once, they're going to be a lot more likely to get hooked into the hobby. And think of the advertising that could be done - commercials, print ads, even actual displays at Target & TRU with huge armies of figures - that's gonna be casual consumer "WOW" factor.

[pegger]

- Naboo Support -
2 Trenchcoat N1 Pilots (Ric Olie body, new head & coat)
1 generic Captain (Panaka body, new head)
1 "Naboo Soldier" Tech
(Soldier-Tech could running-change yellow to red, set should be shortpacked until it proves itself)


You're for this , but not rebel pilots?!!!?

[Phantom-like Menace]

And think of the advertising that could be done - commercials, print ads, even actual displays at Target & TRU with huge armies of figures - that's gonna be casual consumer "WOW" factor.

Surely you're not suggesting they go against the usual strategy of letting the movies advertise for them?:rolleyes: It would be quite unlike them to actually do it themselves. So I figure we'll get "advertisements" only when the TV series start.

My youngest brother just turned twenty-one earlier this year, and one of my friends brought a burned DVD that included Kenner commercials from the early eighties. It was awesome to show my brother that once upon a time they not only made Star Wars commercials but even had commercials dedicated to single figures! I just wish I could show him a toy store with an entire aisle of Star Wars, an entire aisle of G.I. Joe, one of Transformers. It's one of the surest times I know I'm not just looking at the past through nostalgia. Those were better times for toys.

[JediTricks]

You're for this , but not rebel pilots?!!!?There's no play value in a box of 4 rebel pilots, they can all stand around talking about when they shot someone down, but really it's not like there's an army of the guys and they don't do anything action-oriented. I notice you don't seem to have a problem with just 1 TIE Pilot in the More Imperials ANH pack. Variety can sell boring figures, and the truth of the matter is that a 4pack of generic X-wing pilots will be boring - look at how poorly the POTF2 Rebel Pilots cinema scene sold.


Surely you're not suggesting they go against the usual strategy of letting the movies advertise for them?:rolleyes:It would be quite unlike them to actually do it themselves. So I figure we'll get "advertisements" only when the TV series start.Good point, I guess I am expecting too much, actually wanting to do something about selling their own toys... crazy.

[pegger]

I notice you don't seem to have a problem with just 1 TIE Pilot in the More Imperials ANH pack.

Well - that's partially because you only ever see 3 or 4 TIE fighter pilots in ANH - and you never see them again.......where as you see a ton of rebel pilots in ANH, ESB and ROTJ....

Variety can sell boring figures, and the truth of the matter is that a 4pack of generic X-wing pilots will be boring - look at how poorly the POTF2 Rebel Pilots cinema scene sold..

OK - good point. Realisticly, rebel pilots would probably better sell as individually carded figs, rather than a 4 pack...I just want more rebel pilots...

[Phantom-like Menace]

Good point, I guess I am expecting too much, actually wanting to do something about selling their own toys... crazy.

That's okay, you'll know better in the future.;)

[JediTricks]

There will be no future for this line if Hasbro does not take steps to protect it.

[Tenric78]

Just to put my two cents in, I like the bagged ideat, maybe if you could just order a bunch off their website.

[JediTricks]

Hasbro doesn't seem interested in doing "bagged" figures, I dunno why, everything has to be a window box now, even exclusives you can't see until you receive them, like the EE clonetrooper 4packs - luckily, those trays are cheap to manufacture.

[El Chuxter]

It's funny that just a couple of years ago, Hasbro switched to generic cards that were the same for all figures in a wave, then went right back to the (more expensive) individualized cards with the first Saga series. :rolleyes:

[JediTricks]

I think POTJ cards turned out to be more of a hassle than they were worth to Hasbro, overly-generic just burned them.

[Tenric78]

I will admit that I was a little dissapointed when I ordered a 4 pack of storm troopers a fews ago and they came in a blank cardboard box, but that's before I learned the value of opening my troopers up.

[Jayspawn]

I'm with JT all the way on this topic.

Imperial Officers
- 2 black
- 2 grey
- Death Star Trooper (neutral pose)

[TheCivilCollector]

Hasbro doesn't seem interested in doing "bagged" figures, I dunno why, everything has to be a window box now, even exclusives you can't see until you receive them, like the EE clonetrooper 4packs - luckily, those trays are cheap to manufacture.

If I was going to take a stab at why that is, I'd say it's for the collector/secondary market. I doubt they're thinking about Joe-Schmos like us who are openers.

[JediTricks]

I'm with JT all the way on this topic.

Imperial Officers
- 2 black
- 2 grey
- Death Star Trooper (neutral pose)That's 5, I've been doing 4packs. I like the varied colors officer idea, I'd probably cut one of the black or gray troopers to accomodate the DST though.

If I was going to take a stab at why that is, I'd say it's for the collector/secondary market. I doubt they're thinking about Joe-Schmos like us who are openers.Yeah, I know, but it seems like it backfires by raising the price.

[El Chuxter]

When doing human army builders with different uniforms, they could mix the heads up. It might drive variation hunters batty, but it could provide a lot of individuals for army builders without them having to boil and pop the heads.

Or do the more easily removeable ball-joint head style (or even the way old school Vintage ESB posts) so that the heads can be interchanged without any trouble.

[JediTricks]

Yeah, like the X-wing pilots, Rebel troopers, Imp officers, they should all have different heads in each pack, maybe have 3 packs-worth of different heads to keep the variation going strong but without raising tooling prices too high.

[TheCivilCollector]

Hate to dig this old thread back up, but.....

I saw these the other day at a TRU-
http://www.digital-toys.com/RAHVIPER6.gif

SIX troop builder-type GI Joe figs for $21.99

I would LOVE to know why Hasbro can't/won't do something like this for SW.

[Phantom-like Menace]

Hate to dig this old thread back up, but.....

I saw these the other day at a TRU-
http://www.digital-toys.com/RAHVIPER6.gif

SIX troop builder-type GI Joe figs for $21.99

I would LOVE to know why Hasbro can't/won't do something like this for SW.

Well, the price automatically goes up because it's Star Wars, so the price would be higher just given that fact, at least $25.99. Then there is the fact that despite their claim that troopers don't sell, they'll have to add a premium to that, so maybe $30.00, then there is the fact that Target, Wal-Mart, and K Mart can't stick them on the same pegs as all the rest of the Star Wars figures, so they'll probably be exclusive to TRU and cost $35.00. Then too few will be made and those that are made will go straight into the hands of scalpers. Somehow, despite the fact that everyone of them in existence was immediately purchased--seemingly off the back of the truck by our scalper friends--Hasbro will tell us they didn't sell well and will never do it again, at least not without reducing the total number of figures to five and further reducing the number of troops by giving us yet another Anakin or Darth Vader.

Of course none of that matters anyway, because I read all the time that no one wants any army builders, we all want six-breasted women and obscure cantina patrons becase those are the only things that sell.

[jedi master sal]

Hate to dig this old thread back up, but.....

I saw these the other day at a TRU-
http://www.digital-toys.com/RAHVIPER6.gif

SIX troop builder-type GI Joe figs for $21.99

I would LOVE to know why Hasbro can't/won't do something like this for SW.

Yep, that always burns my "butt" when I see it. If they can do it for JOEs they can do it for SW. But of course not. There's more money to be made selling sinlge carded or maybe a four pack in their view. SW is still a hot commodity for them. MAYBE when sales start slumping they'd consider army packs like the JOEs. But by then it will be too late.

All I can keep reiterating is that I would be more apt to buying sets of 6 army builders than single carded. It got WAY to expensive ammassing the Utapau army I have. So i've decided to scle back what I'm going to buy in the form of Kashyyk clones and Galactic Marines. Won't make a dent to Hasbro singularly, but if we ALL scaled back and DEMANDED 6 packs of army builders, maybe just MAYBE they'd finally listen to us. Though being in the "game" of collecting all these years, I know that won't happen. too many single figure buyers, 1/1 collectors, kids.

I see alot of the pros and cons. But it sure as heck doesn't make me happy knowing I'm on the short end of the stick.

PLEASE Hasbro. Consider giving us a 6 pack set for a change. Would you rather I only buy 10 carded figures at $70 total OR 5 6-packs at $25-30 each? (for a total of $125-150).

I keep saying make the army builders more affordable and we will go nuts over them and buy MORE! Why not garner twice as much money in sales? okay so the profit marin isn't as great, but the OVERALL intake of profit IS much better.

I also keep stating that we aren't going to keep collecting at the pace we've been for these last 11 modern years of collecting SW. If you're not going to give us what we want now, I dare say a good lot of us aren't going to stick it out all the way through 2018 when your license contract runs out. Think about it really. For me, I'm 37 right now (7 when the Original trilogy came out-so I was a kid "buyer/collector/army builder" back then too...). In 12 more years, I'll be cresting 50. Do you REALLY think I'm going to be collecting well into my 40s and almost 50?? HELL NO. I think when collectors really take a look at themselves, they are going to realize this as well. Even a kid today of say 13 (who would have been 7 when the Phantom Menace came out) would then be 25. With the TV shows long over by then-do you really think it's going to last that long? I know it won't. There just WON'T be enough to keep people interested in continuing to collect.

I really have to try and drive this point home yet again...

YOU'VE got THREE YEARS TOPS, to give us what we want. After that, if you're NOT expecting a sharp decline in sales then you are completly fooling yourselves.

Capitolize NOW and QUICKLY before you lose out. I as well as a good portion of us collectors don't want to hear your line of "People who stick it out will be rewarded in time for it." News flash Hasbro, we've ALREADY stuck it out! Look at your 3rd quarter profit report. SW STILL holds the top spot! Many of us have been collecting either since the beginning in the 70s or during the modern times starting in 95. Even just accounting for those who started at teh beginning of the Prequels that's 7 years. WE HAVE stuck it out!

Now give us what we want!!!

To reiterate what we want:
• Army builder packs at affordable prices (no frills packaging-save that for battle packs or scene packs)
• Background characters (especially those WE'VE been asking for-Yarna for instance)
• Minor characters WHO HAD SPEAKING roles in the movies...
• Certain vehicles and ships (decent scale and don't skimp...Infiltrator for example and the much desired AT-TE.)
• PLAYSETS!!! Dang it we NEED places to put these figures! Instead of row upon row of figures just standing there in formations, better to have an environment for them to interact with.

What we DON'T want:
• Reissues of inferior sculpts of figures, when there are much better sculpts that have already been done (example: Upcoming Royal Guard pack in with Shuttle).
• Repaints that have NOTHING to do with the movies (or even EU for that matter)
• Old ship/vehicle molds that have been reused since the 70s and 80s, ESPECIALLY when there are better alternatives that have already been made. (we should NEVER see a short winged TIE again-AND the large wing one should be made MORE affordable. Sell at $30 and these would sell MUCH quicker, sell for $25 and they WOULD fly off the shelves!)

Now that's just a brief synopsis (believe it or not).

So please Hasbro, do what WE your REAL customers want. Don't cave to the demands of retail. They (retail giancts like Wal*Mart and Target) are going to kill this line quicker than anything. Also, give TRU a chance PLEASE. We ALL need this TOY STORE to be around in the business world, or ALL of the toy manufacturers are going to take a serious hit to business. More (and affordable) exclusives to TRU. THEY are in the business of selling TOYS! The retail giants can get along quit well without toys...

Thank you.

[JediTricks]

That Viper Pit set didn't sell that well at my local TRUs, I think the box was too big or something. Still, it shows Hasbro is willing to offer army builders with SOME licenses at this scale, and those are figures that are heavy on the assembly (though I suspect VOTC Stormies are moreso).

[El Chuxter]

The Viper set that came with GIJoe and GIJane was pretty sweet, though. First time either was released in the 3.75" scale, no?

[pbarnard]

The Viper set that came with GIJoe and GIJane was pretty sweet, though. First time either was released in the 3.75" scale, no?

No, technically that's the 2nd "Joe Colton" figure.

v1: http://www.yojoe.com/action/94/gijoe.shtml
v2: http://www.yojoe.com/action/06/gijoe2.shtml

1st version of Jane (and pretty much an all new character at that).

JT, do you mean Viper Lockdown? http://yojoe.com/action/06/cardedimages/viperlockdown_pkg_front.jpg

as opposed to the Viper Pit? http://www.yojoe.com/action/06/images/viperpit_card.jpg

Hasbro also doesn't risk anything by doing these outside of the production run and packaging costs. All rehashes, no license fee/oversight, and has a niche market that they know will buy X amount. Star Wars is a much more fickle and complicated market.

[El Chuxter]

Didn't realize that, though the first is obvious a "1960s Joe Colton flashback" figure. :p

[JediTricks]

JT, do you mean Viper Lockdown? http://yojoe.com/action/06/cardedimages/viperlockdown_pkg_front.jpg

as opposed to the Viper Pit? http://www.yojoe.com/action/06/images/viperpit_card.jpg

Hasbro also doesn't risk anything by doing these outside of the production run and packaging costs. All rehashes, no license fee/oversight, and has a niche market that they know will buy X amount. Star Wars is a much more fickle and complicated market.
No, I meant Viper Pit, though I did see a lot of those Lockdown sets too.


I was messing with my TSC Sandtrooper figures today, they have something cool, their elbows are cut in a way that allows them to bend their elbows a little beyond 90 degrees, this has a lot of pose potential to it, a 4pack of VOTC Stormtroopers almost begs to be made just to be posed in neutral and battle positions. I would hope that the plastic for the hands be made a little more rubbery though the way the Clone Troopers are so they can accomodate their weapons better.

[Phantom-like Menace]

What we DON'T want:
• Reissues of inferior sculpts of figures, when there are much better sculpts that have already been done (example: Upcoming Royal Guard pack in with Shuttle).
• Repaints that have NOTHING to do with the movies (or even EU for that matter)


I wildly agree with the first of these two points. If Hasbro has to put out the hero characters each wave (and they seem to think they do), maybe they should let us vote on which version of the character gets made umpteen times, ad infinitum, ad naseum, forever and ever. Vote on "go to" versions of Tatooine Luke, X-wing Luke, Bespin Luke, Hoth Luke, etc. rather than putting out the crappiest version of each character.

As for the second point, I've got little or no problem with repaints of clones or X-wings that reflect neither movie nor EU designs. I certainly have absolutely no problem with EU designs. The only problem I have is they are nearly impossible to get when they come out.