Hasbro's making the Sith Infiltrator and here's the bad news...

[Turbowars]

Yak Face,

3) I've heard rumours about a 3 3/4 scale Sith Infiltrator? First of all, is it true? And secondly will it be scaled like the 'real' ship [ideally with space for a couple of probe droids and a Sith speeder or is it going to be a modified TIE fighter with room for one pilot?

Hasbro,

Yes, it is true. It will be develoepd for the $19.99 Starfighter Vehicle line, so liberties will be taken with scale but there will be cool features and will be designed for one pilot. We can't wait to show fans the final product…it's a sensational vehicle.

Sounds more like sensational BS.



$19.99?!?!?!?!?! WTF! Hasbro is killing the line.

[Battle Droid]

At least they're making it.

[JediTricks]

I warned you guys this is what would happen.

[Turbowars]

At least they are marking it? Come on now. Hasbro have lost their nerve. I wont buy it and I hope they reuse the mold for years to come. Next year they can paint it the colors of the rainbow.

Now that's Sensational!

[pegger]

Yak Face,

3) I've heard rumours about a 3 3/4 scale Sith Infiltrator? First of all, is it true? And secondly will it be scaled like the 'real' ship [ideally with space for a couple of probe droids and a Sith speeder or is it going to be a modified TIE fighter with room for one pilot?

Hasbro,

Yes, it is true. It will be develoepd for the $19.99 Starfighter Vehicle line, so liberties will be taken with scale but there will be cool features and will be designed for one pilot. We can't wait to show fans the final product…it's a sensational vehicle.

Sounds more like sensational BS.



$19.99?!?!?!?!?! WTF! Hasbro is killing the line.


So it'll be about the size of the Jedi Starfighter - which ain't too bad. X-Wing size would have been better... I don't see this as "horrible" just a reflection of what sells. Face it, the 19.99 price point works for kids, parents and some collectors. And it'll fit Maul - so... it ain't ALL bad...

[Devo]

As expected. I am now less likely to consider this a worthwhile purchase. The sith infiltrator was not a starfighter, it may have had the appearance of one but it was more the scale of a space freighter like the Millenium Falcon. Its a wait and see jobby. Right now I'm not enthused.

[Jargo]

Blah. Might just as well not have bothered. Unless it's made from really cheapo plastic and has minimal parts. then it could be bigger. but with them saying 'cool features' it sounds like firing things and pop out things and useless non movie stuff.

There again I don't buy ships anyway. take up way too much space. now speeder bikes and swoops are a whole different kettle of fish.

[JediTricks]

So it'll be about the size of the Jedi Starfighter - which ain't too bad.Provided you don't mind that the Jedi Starfighter is the smallest space vehicle in all of Star Wars and the Sith Infiltrator is 5 times that size, a third bigger than a Republic Gunship.
Ep 2 Jedi Starfighter - 8 meters
Ep 3 Jedi Starfighter - 5.5 meters
Naboo Fighter - 11 meters
X-wing Fighter - 12.5 meters
ARC-170 - 14.5 meters
Republic Gunship - 17.5 meters
Sith Infiltrator - 26.5 meters
world's biggest minirig - $19.99

[pegger]

Ep 2 Jedi Starfighter - 8 meters
Ep 3 Jedi Starfighter - 5.5 meters
Naboo Fighter - 11 meters
X-wing Fighter - 12.5 meters
ARC-170 - 14.5 meters
Republic Gunship - 17.5 meters
Sith Infiltrator - 26.5 meters
world's biggest minirig - $19.99

Watching Jeditricks and Turbowars melt down - priceless... ;)

I'm not saying it's ideal. I would prefer a larger one too. I'm only saying I can see why Hasbro wants to keep it to a 19.99 price range. Heck, to make it "in scale" to the starfighter it would be the size of the Royal Starship. Now, I love that ship - but it's pretty big - and I don't have the space to display an "in scale" Sith Infiltrator.

[Phantom-like Menace]

Ten more bucks could have gotten us something more like the Slave I in size and scale, not perfect but far preferable. At least it couldn't be any worse than the travesty that was the Outrider in SotE.

Though I'll agree that if you want to change the scale that much what is the point in releasing it? I suppose one could decide it is Darth Maul's personal starfighter with a design influenced by his Sith Infiltrator. We can put a bumper sticker on it that says, "My other car is the Sith Infiltrator."

[Kidhuman]

Meh, I will wait to make a decision on it. &

[TheDarthVader]

Meh, I will wait to make a decision on it. &

Is it me or does this guy use the word "meh" too much?...................hehe

Anyway, I will wait and see how the thing looks, but I am doubting that I will be buying this baby-sized Sith Infiltrator. This is horrible news. When I first read the title, I thought it was going to be exclusive. And, when I thought about it being exclusive, I thought...YES! This baby is going to be huge! And now this baby is going to be a baby. &

[Kidhuman]

Is it me or does this guy use the word "meh" too much?...................hehe




Yeah, I do, but its awesome, every vocabulary should have it :)




&

[El Chuxter]

Provided you don't mind that the Jedi Starfighter is the smallest space vehicle in all of Star Wars....

Smaller than the Cruisemissile? :p (Okay, seriously, is it really smaller than a standard TIE?)

[dindae]

Well I'm not happy about the scale, but I will buy it and probably be pretty please with it. The ship has little interaction with on character so I would rather they skimp on this than have them do so on an AT-TE or Jabba's Sail Barge. Still not good news but I will give JT his props on calling it months ago. I will still hope it will come in two pieces and the cockpit has to be attached to the main part of the ship so that can get an extra 6" or so. (yes I know if Hasbro could sell 6" they would make millions)

[kool-aid killer]

I think the Sith Infiltrator will work in this size. All it really needs to be able to do is have ample room for a Maul figure to fit in. Why people get so bent out of shape over this (and especially when we already know Hasbro doesnt do vehicles that are of the appropriate scale a vast majority of the time) is beyond me. Hasbro can still make this look decent.

[Turbowars]

It's comment like that tell Hasbro it's OK to make inferior product.

Look, I didn't post this to start a debate on who's right or wrong. Why is it beyond you to understand others point of views. Hasbro CAN DO BETTER. We all know that, but they decide not to. I wont buy it and you will, that's cool.:thumbsup:

[Slicker]

It is a disappointment that they're making it small but at least we're getting it. I don't exactly see the TRU TIE and X-Wing flying off the shelves so they're making it affordable.


And don't make me revive my "Never Happy" thread.;)

[Turbowars]

It is a disappointment that they're making it small but at least we're getting it. I don't exactly see the TRU TIE and X-Wing flying off the shelves so they're making it affordable.


And don't make me revive my "Never Happy" thread.;)
I dare you, I triple dog dare you. :yes:

[Tycho]

The Sith Infiltrator as Hasbro describes it is exactly what I expected and it will make me happy.

What else I expect? A lever will remotely open and fold the wings on the back, similar to how the INT-4 mini-rig worked back in Kenner's days.

There might be firing missles - and I LIKE firing missles. OK? It allows me to make my new toy ship interact with my cats and I can chase them around the house and shoot them and stuff. (Jango's Slave-One or the Hailfire Droid is best for that though - lot of firepower).

What would surprise me? Some way to use the Sith Speederbike or the Dark Eye Probe Droids with the ship (maybe the probes will launch out of the back somehow on clear tube missle inserts such as how the Sith Speeder operated?)

The ship only needed to hold Maul in a pilot seat like the Darth Vader TIE.

Sure it could have been cool for play value if Maul had room for prisoners on board so you could make your own adventures with him. But when Obi-Wan cut him in half, it also cut my interest in him in half. So that's that.

[RooJay]

All I read there is that it's actually being made. I'm buying! Star Wars vehicles have a history of being scaled down for the figure line that goes all the way back to the very first ships produced by Kenner. This is neither a new development, nor one to get all worked up over. Very few vehicles have ever been produced at exact scale. Besides, the scale of the ship in the film is pretty hard to make out for the casual viewer anyway (I remember originally thinking the scale revealed in the Incredible Cross-Sections book seemed a lot bigger than I originally noticed!) If the Infiltrator were produced closer to actual scale it'd have to be much closer in size to the Queen's Starship vehicle that was done for the Episode 1 line, and none of you could have ever seriously expected that to happen. As long as Darth Maul fits in it I really don't see how this could be so serious an offense. Besides, at 20 bucks I seriously doubt many collectors or fans would ever really consider passing on this ship.

[kool-aid killer]

It's comment like that tell Hasbro it's OK to make inferior product.

Look, I didn't post this to start a debate on who's right or wrong. Why is it beyond you to understand others point of views. Hasbro CAN DO BETTER. We all know that, but they decide not to. I wont buy it and you will, that's cool.:thumbsup:

Oh no, i completely understand your point of view: complain about every single thing in this line. The line has been producing out of scale vehicles for 12 years now and you expect that to change? If "you all know that" then why act surprised with the "WTF Hasbro is killing this line" comment? I'll let you go so you can get back to :cry:ing. :thumbsup:

[RooJay]

Oh no, i completely understand your point of view: complain about every single thing in this line. The line has been producing out of scale vehicles for 12 years now and you expect that to change? If "you all know that" then why act surprised with the "WTF Hasbro is killing this line" comment? I'll let you go so you can get back to :cry:ing. :thumbsup:

Ahem...make that 28 years!:thumbsup:

[Devo]

Put it this way. I like the jedi starfighters because they're pretty much as big as they need to be. Accordingly I buy them. They were that size in the film, I'm happy to buy them at that size. Not so Darth Mauls ship. It wasn't presented in the film as a small starfighter but as a larger freighter. He didn't climb out of a hatch at the top of the ship he walked down a ramp at the underside of the ship. Having it starfighter size is just wrong for me. Its like the sandcrawler - the toy is tiny (something I only realised with its modern release)....just far too small. It wasn't like that in the film. Simple as that. Why bother. Why would I bother? What will a starfighter-size toy have beyond firing missiles? For a diorama what will it contribute? I can put a Maul figure beside it but it will be totally out of scale and only good for one scene in any case. In this situation it seems I needn't bother setting up this scene at all. I have serious doubts about whether I need bother buying this ship now. For me there'd be scant difference in having Darth Maul standing there by himself and Darth Maul standing next to a severel undersized toy ship. Granted I'm possibly in a minority on that score. Also granted it may end up looking better than I currently imagine.

[Tycho]

A small ship can still have a ramp access in the back - it will probably just need a TIE-style opening top on it for convenience.

[Jargo]

Sometimes I marvel at how non discerning people are. The propensity to buy anything as long as it has the 'right' label on it. Regardless of quality.

This won't be the death of the line but it will be one more step down a slippery slope. The more corners hasbro cuts and the more people carry on buying regardless, the more hasbro will continue to cut corners.
re-carded figures you've bought a few times before are collectible because they're on a different card? screw that and save your money then you could afford to buy bigger better scale vehicles. if the consumer can afford them hasbro will make them. it's only because people are buying all this 'new cardback' stuff time and time again and then moaning they have no money to buy big box items that takes hasbro down the $20 road with vehicles.

Personally I couldn't give a flying **** at a rolling donut what the cost is at retail. if I like it and it's good scale and good qualiy I'll buy it. I'd have bought a royal starship scale Sith infiltrator even if it cost $100 or more. but that's because I'm discerning and circumspect about what I buy. it allows me freedom of cashflow.

As it looks like this sith infiltrator will be vastly underscaled, moreso than the X-wing or the royal starship, I can't imagine even contemplating purchasing it. At that size they might as well have passd it over and done Grievous's Utapau escape ship. or more landspeeders. airspeeders and transport craft. which can be done in correct scale within the $20 price point. It's a complete waste of a good vehicle to create it with so much compromise.

[Phantom-like Menace]

Star Wars vehicles have a history of being scaled down for the figure line that goes all the way back to the very first ships produced by Kenner. This is neither a new development, nor one to get all worked up over. Very few vehicles have ever been produced at exact scale.

That's either missing the point or making light of the point. Look at the Millennium Falcon. Sure, it's way too small for the figures, but figures can go in the cockpit, loung, gunwell, and floor just like in the movie. The Rebel Transport is an even better example. It would be as big as a nicely sized house, but Hasbro scaled it down to a few inches. However, it can hold how many figures? You feel like you can at least evacuate the figures you have on display in your Rebel Base.

Maul's ship is comparable to Slave I in size, in fact, it might even be slightly smaller. Hasbro's original Slave I was great. Boba Fett could go in the cockpit and Han could go in the cargo hold. A toy of Maul's Infiltrator should be comparable size. I would be fine if there weren't even a place to put the speeder bike. Something large enough to have a pilot area and at least enough room in an aft compartment to seat an additional figure would have been great. That arrangement could still be smaller than Slave I and not all but abandon the concept of what the Infiltrator was.

Besides, the scale of the ship in the film is pretty hard to make out for the casual viewer anyway (I remember originally thinking the scale revealed in the Incredible Cross-Sections book seemed a lot bigger than I originally noticed!)

The casual viewer would have at least noticed he walks upright out of the back of it and must have stashed an entire speeder bike somewhere.

This thread could be construed as asking less of Hasbro than they've given us, since it can be pretty well summed up with the sentence, "If you can't do it right, don't do it."

Edit:
At that size they might as well have passd it over and done Grievous's Utapau escape ship. or more landspeeders. airspeeders and transport craft. which can be done in correct scale within the $20 price point. It's a complete waste of a good vehicle to create it with so much compromise.

Very well stated.

[Tycho]

Well I hope they will still do Grievous' ship (that Obi-Wan gets away in), Padme's star yachts (which had more screen time and interiors shown than Maul's ship) etc.

But this is a return to marketing Darth Maul. They're going to use him and his image to sell this to those that buy into that whole Maul thing.

You don't see them having as high of anticipation expectation around making "Darth Tyranus'" solar sailor ship, do you? That's because Dooku was never an obvious marketing blitz - Jango was that for E2. Vader was probably for the rest of the saga, but Grievous had some marketing appeal for E3.

Still, Hasbro is a toy company. Attickus has a correctly scaled Millennium Falcon for a few thousand dollars and in the Death Star hanger no less. I'd say the complainers should go buy that. I'm more offended by recarded figures than any effort on what might be an entirely new mold. On the Sith Infiltrator, I'll reserve judgement until I see pictures.

[RooJay]

That's either missing the point or making light of the point. Look at the Millennium Falcon. Sure, it's way too small for the figures, but figures can go in the cockpit, loung, gunwell, and floor just like in the movie. The Rebel Transport is an even better example. It would be as big as a nicely sized house, but Hasbro scaled it down to a few inches. However, it can hold how many figures? You feel like you can at least evacuate the figures you have on display in your Rebel Base.

With all due respect and not to offend, that was most definitely "making light of the point" as opposed to "missing the point". I understand everyone's points perfectly. I just think everyone offended by this news is making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

Maul's ship is comparable to Slave I in size, in fact, it might even be slightly smaller. Hasbro's original Slave I was great. Boba Fett could go in the cockpit and Han could go in the cargo hold. A toy of Maul's Infiltrator should be comparable size. I would be fine if there weren't even a place to put the speeder bike. Something large enough to have a pilot area and at least enough room in an aft compartment to seat an additional figure would have been great. That arrangement could still be smaller than Slave I and not all but abandon the concept of what the Infiltrator was.

The casual viewer would have at least noticed he walks upright out of the back of it and must have stashed an entire speeder bike somewhere.

Now see there, this is kind of a moot point as far as I'm concerned since (other than Maul being seen walking upright out of the back of the ship and stashing his speeder there [and this is still possible at this scale]) we never see him or anyone else intereacting with the ship in any other way, and particularly not in anyway you've described in the above statement. We're really only asked by the film to assume that he somehow pilots the ship. Conversely, we're shown on film that characters can stand up in the Millenium Falcon's cockpit and that many more than two people can fit therein, though that is not the case with the toy.

This thread could be construed as asking less of Hasbro than they've given us, since it can be pretty well summed up with the sentence, "If you can't do it right, don't do it."

From another point of view (one held by me in particular and one that should be seen as equally valid), the disagreement in this thread could stem from the notion that many of us would rather have compromises to the design be made rather than having the vehicle not made at all. I for one would love to see a new Millenium Falcon made in scale (or at least closer to it) and think that it could be done at a price I would be willing to purchase it for (I think I'd probably go for it at $300-500), but I'm perfectly content in the understanding that it's just never going to happen. Same case with the Sith Infiltrator. Could it be a little bit bigger? Yes. Would I prefer it if it was? Absolutely! Am I gonna holler and scream at Hasbro until they take it back and redo it? No, because there's not a chance it's going to happen anyway. Not even if every Star Wars collector in the world signed a petiton stating they would refuse to buy it like this and then actually stuck to that statement - and let's all be perfectly honest here - at least 9 out of 10 fans that are up in arms about this development are going to end up buying one anyway. Hasbro would just cancel the item all together if it came to that, and I for one would rather have a small Sith Infiltrator than none at all. Anyone else not happy with the way it's being done (again, not to offend here) can just refrain from buying it. Under which circumstances should those of us to whom it's just not that big a deal have to go without just because there are others who would rather not have it at all?

[JediTricks]

It is a disappointment that they're making it small but at least we're getting it. I don't exactly see the TRU TIE and X-Wing flying off the shelves so they're making it affordable.It's that kind of logic which sees Hasbro releasing the dinky-winged white TIE Fighter next year - now there's a fair entry in the 30th anniversary line, because that same dopey-looking wing size has been around since 1977 (it was designed in '77 even though it was released in '78).


Ten more bucks could have gotten us something more like the Slave I in size and scale, not perfect but far preferable.Yeah, and the $30 pricepoint gets us vehicles the size of the Republic Gunship and ARC-170, it's a heck of a lot closer to what it should be than some rinky-dink Jedi Starfighter.

At least it couldn't be any worse than the travesty that was the Outrider in SotE.Aiming pretty low, huh PLM? :p That thing sucked, looked almost nothing like it was supposed to and couldn't hold a figure.

Though I'll agree that if you want to change the scale that much what is the point in releasing it? I suppose one could decide it is Darth Maul's personal starfighter with a design influenced by his Sith Infiltrator. We can put a bumper sticker on it that says, "My other car is the Sith Infiltrator."Maybe this toy will be the Sith Infiltrator's escape pod. :p


Anyway, I will wait and see how the thing looks, but I am doubting that I will be buying this baby-sized Sith Infiltrator.I'm in the same boat, I'll wait and see but right now I'm not seeing a reason to buy a Sith Minirig. If I wanted a Sith Infiltrator toy that badly out of scale, I'd buy the Action Fleet version... oh wait, I did. :D


Smaller than the Cruisemissile? :p (Okay, seriously, is it really smaller than a standard TIE?)
The cruisemissile is more man than machine. :p

Yes, it's smaller than a TIE Fighter, which is 6.3 meters long and much taller.


I think the Sith Infiltrator will work in this size. All it really needs to be able to do is have ample room for a Maul figure to fit in. Why people get so bent out of shape over this (and especially when we already know Hasbro doesnt do vehicles that are of the appropriate scale a vast majority of the time) is beyond me. Hasbro can still make this look decent.
To me, it's a big waste of time, if we wanted one so grossly out of scale we would have just asked them to make a Titanium Series 6" version. We only see it in the movie a couple times, and one of them is interacting with Maul - he is standing just outside the hatch on the LOWER LEVEL, the thing is massive behind him. I didn't think Hasbro should have tried this at all, it's not a big enough player in the film, but if they're going to do it they shouldn't screw up the scale this badly when there is a perfectly servicable $30 pricepoint that would be better suited to the ship's size. At $20, it's going to be about the size of the Jedi Starfighter and they're going to have to take liberties with the cockpit lines - and one of its niftiest design features, the opening hatch doors, what are they going to do with that?


The Sith Infiltrator as Hasbro describes it is exactly what I expected and it will make me happy.

What else I expect? A lever will remotely open and fold the wings on the back, similar to how the INT-4 mini-rig worked back in Kenner's days.Well, comparing this to a Minirig sounds about right anyway. :p

Here's what I find most odd Tycho, you say you're not a collector but a diorama-maker, everything you get is in service to that, but what diorama are you going to do with a Sith Infiltrator that's only as tall as the Darth Maul figure standing behind it?


All I read there is that it's actually being made. I'm buying! Star Wars vehicles have a history of being scaled down for the figure line that goes all the way back to the very first ships produced by Kenner. This is neither a new development, nor one to get all worked up over. Very few vehicles have ever been produced at exact scale.That's not a fair argument, we all know it's not going to be to scale, but up until now no vehicle has ever crossed out of its scale into a smaller pricepoint - there's no $20 AT-AT, no $20 Imperial Shuttle, no $20 Millennium Falcon.

Besides, the scale of the ship in the film is pretty hard to make out for the casual viewer anyway (I remember originally thinking the scale revealed in the Incredible Cross-Sections book seemed a lot bigger than I originally noticed!)There's a shot in the movie of the Infiltrator landed with its doors open, they aren't even half the cockpit's height, and then Maul comes out of those doors.


A small ship can still have a ramp access in the back - it will probably just need a TIE-style opening top on it for convenience.The doors and ramp were under the engines, how would you get the figure out of there or look halfway decent standing in front of that if they were to scale with the dinky vehicle? And if they were to scale with the figure, there'd be no engines.

Now see there, this is kind of a moot point as far as I'm concerned since (other than Maul being seen walking upright out of the back of the ship and stashing his speeder there [and this is still possible at this scale]) I refer you to the above statment I just made. How would that be possible? He comes out of this: http://multimedia.theforce.net/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Images/Episode_1/Vehicles/Sith_Infiltrator&image=JEDI12.jpg&img=&tt=

the disagreement in this thread could stem from the notion that many of us would rather have compromises to the design be made rather than having the vehicle not made at all. Are you going to buy the $20 white TIE Fighter next year? Would you expect any collector to? As mentioned before, this entry will be the first vehicle to cross its scale/pricepoint envelope, that's a compromise I don't think is a good choice, it has to hurt the vehicle's lines if nothing else and it's just an oversized Minirig - would you buy a Republic Gunship or ARC-170 if it were the size of the 1978 X-wing Fighter toy? I seriously doubt it.


Maul's ship is comparable to Slave I in size, in fact, it might even be slightly smaller. Hasbro's original Slave Iwas great. Boba Fett could go in the cockpit and Han could go in the cargo hold. A toy of Maul's Infiltrator should be comparable size.Maul's ship is 26.5 meters long, Slave I is 21.5 meters long, and the Slave I toy is way undersized from what we saw in the movies.

This thread could be construed as asking less of Hasbro than they've given us, since it can be pretty well summed up with the sentence, "If you can't do it right, don't do it."Yes, thank you, that's it exactly.


Now see there, this is kind of a moot point as far as I'm concerned since (other than Maul being seen walking upright out of the back of the ship and stashing his speeder there [and this is still possible at this scale])

[Phantom-like Menace]

With all due respect and not to offend, that was most definitely "making light of the point" as opposed to "missing the point".

That's cool. I figured that was the case but was covering the bases.

(other than Maul being seen walking upright out of the back of the ship and stashing his speeder there [and this is still possible at this scale])

I won't say it's impossible, but we're now talking about a trunk.:razz: In seriousness, something the size of the Jedi Starfighter would end up having a serious bulge to fit something the size of the speeder and Maul inside the bubble structure that is the main passenger area of that design.

we never see him or anyone else intereacting with the ship in any other way, and particularly not in anyway you've described in the above statement.

You mean when I said, "at least enough room in an aft compartment to seat an additional figure?" That's compromise. The movie shows Maul walking out of that area standing fully erect. I'm not asking for enough room for him to stand, just be seated at least. And even then I'm not saying they need to put an actual seat in that space, just an amount of storage equal to the amount required to hold a seated figure.

From another point of view (one held by me in particular and one that should be seen as equally valid), the disagreement in this thread could stem from the notion that many of us would rather have compromises to the design be made rather than having the vehicle not made at all. (...) Under which circumstances should those of us to whom it's just not that big a deal have to go without just because there are others who would rather not have it at all?

No, your point is equally valid, but the question is when is compromise no longer compromise? I'm a Hasbro defender going way back, but "compromise" in my opinion isn't doing whatever the hell you please minus the absolute slightest concession to the other camp. If I want 100% and someone else wants 1%, is 20% compromise? Twenty-five? Does this even qualify as twenty percent? How much more would you be willing to compromise to get an Infiltrator? From the sounds of it, this "effort" on Hasbro's part is within the reach of some of the better customizers out there using a Jedi Starfighter. Only I doubt we'll ever know for sure, because I doubt they would think the end result worth the effort.

I would say, as I kind of mentioned above, Hasbro could release "Darth Maul's Starfighter," but that would be :shocked: EU:shocked: and a particular brand of rhetoric grips a particular group of adherents who think angels and kittens die in droves each time EU is released, so maybe it is best to release an EU starfighter as "Darth Maul's Infiltrator" just so they are placated by the happy thought that they are only buying movie items.

I'm willing to bet that if Hasbro went thirty percent, this thread wouldn't exist. There would be those *****ing and complaining that the toy isn't 1:1 scale and can't go into hyperspace, but they would be a very small minority. A larger group of people would give their usual statements about how they don't buy any vehicles ever in life (but will complain Hasbro doesn't put out vehicles), but by and large happiness would ensue.

The real problem here is that Hasbro is making the molds to do this. They will complain and complain about how much it costs to make molds, but then they will make something that is destined to rot on shelves. "When we make vehicles, you won't buy them!" Yes, Hasbro, you're right. You're absolutely right. What was I thinking? And I didn't buy Thermonuclear R5-D4 back in the orange card days because I don't buy astromechs. No, no, ignore the many astromechs I've purchased, because they don't support your theory.

And since it's taken me so long to finish this reply (I'm at work, so lots of distraction):

Maul's ship is 26.5 meters long, Slave I is 21.5 meters long, and the Slave I toy is way undersized from what we saw in the movies.

That's what I said (maybe slightly paraphrased:grin: ): Maul's ship is comparable to Slave I in size if you just look at the movies and don't go out and crack a book just to prove someone wrong.:p But I kid JediTricks. . . . Sincerely: all in jest. Giving us the solid numbers is appreciated.

My point of course, all joking aside, is that no one really complains about the scale of the Slave I toy and an Infiltrator of similar length would be fine (maybe a bit longer because of Infiltrator's nose). It's compromise short of one side basically getting their way in its entirety.

At least it couldn't be any worse than the travesty that was the Outrider in SotE.
Aiming pretty low, huh PLM? :p That thing sucked, looked almost nothing like it was supposed to and couldn't hold a figure.

To quote Barney from How I Met Your Mother: "Ambition is the enemy of success." Seriously, though, that thing stunk on ice. And it's terrible, because I would do evil and unconscionable things to get an Outrider in the same style as the Hasbro Millennium Falcon. That . . . thing . . . is the perfect example of when compromise is no compromise. I had to be told what it was or I wouldn't have known.

Your point about how no vehicle has ever crossed out of its scale into a smaller price point fairly well states things quite impressively. I was tying my brain in knots trying to convey that thinking.

[Tycho]

Here's what I find most odd Tycho, you say you're not a collector but a diorama-maker, everything you get is in service to that, but what diorama are you going to do with a Sith Infiltrator that's only as tall as the Darth Maul figure standing behind it?

I'm going to stick the softgoods Maul in it, which I've been saving for a Sith Infiltrator since 1999, and then I'm going to hang it from my ceiling in what will eventually be my prequel Tatooine / Geonosis / Utopau / Mustafar room. I'm not making the display with Maul in front of the landed ship. I'd like it displayed with the wings open in flight mode.


The doors and ramp were under the engines, how would you get the figure out of there or look halfway decent standing in front of that if they were to scale with the dinky vehicle? And if they were to scale with the figure, there'd be no engines.

Wow. I've never paid it that much mind before.

[JEDIpartner]

I told you not to expect a miracle ship!!! You should have already known that there was no way this would even be CLOSE to the size of the Royal Starship. After that debacle, there was no way it was going to happen again!

[rbaumhauer]

This whole thing matters to me not a bit, as I don't buy Prequel stuff, but this whole debate got me thinking. I don't know if anybody has mentioned this before, so forgive me if it has, but has it occured to anyone that the Jedi Starfighters were so small in the movies precisely because it makes for a less expensive/easier to produce toy?

I'm not saying that I wasn't aware of the whole "George Lucas makes movies to sell toys" angle, and we certainly have history (ie, Ewoks) that points to past considerations, but when I look at the Jedi Starfighters in relation to every other starship in the movies, they are dramatically smaller. Do you suppose the designers were advised to shoot for something that would allow Hasbro to hit that $20 pricepoint without compromising scale (as had happened in the line since the '70s)?

[Tycho]

The A-wing was a really small starfighter.

The Lars Landspeeder has never been made and would be probably less than $20 at retail.

I don't think size and toy design had much to do with each other myself.

They never made the Gian speeder or the smaller battle-droid-on-a-rack carrier - and the Senate speaker's car we did get (with the battle pack) was terribly underscale and if it were actually made to scale, it wouldn't be that much bigger - maybe 1/2 again as big or 1.5 times its current size.

[DarkArtist]

I want one. So what if it isn't in scale at least Hasbro is making one. Afterall, they could pass on it all together.

[Turbowars]

Oh no, i completely understand your point of view: complain about every single thing in this line. The line has been producing out of scale vehicles for 12 years now and you expect that to change? If "you all know that" then why act surprised with the "WTF Hasbro is killing this line" comment? I'll let you go so you can get back to :cry:ing. :thumbsup:
You know what, you don't have to sound so condescending. Hasbro decides to make some ships closer to scale than others and this one will be too off scale for me. Yes Hasbro is killing the line for me. I barley ever buy their products anymore and I'm sure that goes for many other collectors out there. I guess if you don't mind the scale then buy it. I will continue to say whats on my mind about Hasbro and any other company that I give my hard earn $ to.

[Mr. JabbaJohnL]

Well, as of yet, we don't for sure know the scale. I'm thinking that it will indeed be much smaller than in the films, but they'll likely cut corners in the nose to make it larger.

But, really, this vehicle wasn't in the film that much, so who ever expected a full-scale one? I'm still happy they're making it and we should reserve final judgment until it comes out.

[JediTricks]

That's what I said (maybe slightly paraphrased:grin: ): Maul's ship is comparable to Slave I in size if you just look at the movies and don't go out and crack a book just to prove someone wrong.:p But I kid JediTricks. . . . Sincerely: all in jest. Giving us the solid numbers is appreciated.I didn't crack books, I just looked 'em up on the official site. If I had bothered to get up and look at the books in the living room, my posts would have been sadly FAR longer. ;)

My point of course, all joking aside, is that no one really complains about the scale of the Slave I toy and an Infiltrator of similar length would be fine (maybe a bit longer because of Infiltrator's nose). It's compromise short of one side basically getting their way in its entirety.I've complained about the size of the Slave I toy, I want a little more play environment, at least the real door in the back, but that's me. I think my comparisons between the Sith Infiltrator and Republic Gunship or ARC-170 are a little better, it's the same pricepoint but they use the space more like the Sith Infiltrator (Slave I is a small mold in part because there are no big flat parts, it's all bulk).



To quote Barney from How I Met Your Mother: "Ambition is the enemy of success." Yeah, but he gave Lilly and her twin chlamydia. :D

Seriously, though, that thing stunk on ice. And it's terrible, because I would do evil and unconscionable things to get an Outrider in the same style as the Hasbro Millennium Falcon. That . . . thing . . . is the perfect example of when compromise is no compromise. I had to be told what it was or I wouldn't have known.That's a good point, Hasbro compromised in every manner possible and ended up with a total piece of garbage - the size is too small to fit the $20 pricepoint, the color is off to make it more kid-friendly, it has a new gimmick that ruins most of the ship to make it kid-friendly, and I don't know what compromise ruined that cockpit but I bet it was one.

Your point about how no vehicle has ever crossed out of its scale into a smaller price point fairly well states things quite impressively. I was tying my brain in knots trying to convey that thinking.Thanks, it's a concept I hadn't expressed before but needed saying here I think.


I'm going to stick the softgoods Maul in it, which I've been saving for a Sith Infiltrator since 1999, and then I'm going to hang it from my ceiling in what will eventually be my prequel Tatooine / Geonosis / Utopau / Mustafar room. I'm not making the display with Maul in front of the landed ship. I'd like it displayed with the wings open in flight mode.Why bother putting a figure in it? Why bother having this version over the Titanium or Action Fleet versions if figure interaction display isn't the key?

Wow. I've never paid it that much mind before.Then why did you want it? It's not like I'm pulling this scale out of my behindus (thank you Doctor Zoidberg), these details are in the movie as the main focus of their shots.


I told you not to expect a miracle ship!!! You should have already known that there was no way this would even be CLOSE to the size of the Royal Starship. After that debacle, there was no way it was going to happen again!But not even Republic Gunship or ARC-170 sized??? I mean, I knew Hasbro was going to pull this, and even those $30 sizes wouldn't fully pull off what the ship was, but I sorta thought maybe they'd recognize that the $20 size is too small and go $30.


I don't believe Lucas asks for designs that are toy-friendly, not the Ewoks, not the Jedi Starfighters, I think he has ideas and concepts for various things and asks designers to dream up the thing based on his bare-bones concepts like "small Star Destroyer-shaped fighter" then OKs the ones that best fit his vision - the Jedi Starfighters aren't practical for toys because of droid slots and other stuff, the Ep 2 JSF toy is about half-scale at that.

[Tycho]

Why bother putting a figure in it? Why bother having this version over the Titanium or Action Fleet versions if figure interaction display isn't the key?

Because I CAN put a regular 3 3/4" figure in it and I bought that figure for the ship 6 years ago already. This feels like the completion of a quest sort of. Even then, I had no reason to buy that softgoods Maul - I think I used less than 10 of them for all my TPM scenes - but that came out and I came up with a reason to buy it - holding out some hope for a Sith Infiltrator.

I also have softgoods Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, with the accessory pack robes, and a JarJar figure saved, in case I ever get a Bongo sub out of Hasbro.

[DarthBrandon]

Yes Hasbro is killing the line for me. I barley ever buy their products anymore and I'm sure that goes for many other collectors out there. I guess if you don't mind the scale then buy it. I will continue to say whats on my mind about Hasbro and any other company that I give my hard earn $ to.

Dam skippy, been slowing down quite a bit as of late myself & I don't feel bad about it one bit. I was going to buy two (one for my son & I) but after hearing it will be as small as the Jedi Starfighter I'll just get one for my son as he really digs the ship. After watching him play with ship, I'll make a decision on whether or not I'll buy another one. ($19.99 seems like it's going to bite big time) I have found better things to spend my money on so Hasbro had better impress me big time to renew my spending habits in their toy line.

[El Chuxter]

Anyone think Hasbro could surprise us and release a bargain-priced full-sized Sith Infiltrator for $20?

Me neither. :p

[plasticfetish]

I think we all know what we'll end up with, but I'm not so jaded that I would rule out a surprise.

...I'll just get one for my son as he really digs the ship. After watching him play with ship, I'll make a decision on whether or not I'll buy another one.This thread is another perfect example of a time when we all sort of forget that this is really just a kid's toy line. I like DarthBrandon's approach to considering this... I like the fact that he's willing to give it a chance, and to see if it'll turn out as a halfway decent toy before ruling it out entirely.

Even I'm a little surprised by the price though. I think JT's point about it needing to be the same size as a Gunship is a good one. Mostly I'm amazed that Hasbro is going to bother making this vehicle, given that it has such a small part in a film that most fans claim is their least favorite in the series.

They are a glutton for punishment aren't they?

[Phantom-like Menace]

How many of us are complaining that it isn't the size of the Queen's Starship toy and how many of us are complaining that it has been scaled back too drastically? I wouldn't be able to understand the former, but I can't understand not agreeing with the latter.

I didn't crack books, I just looked 'em up on the official site. If I had bothered to get up and look at the books in the living room, my posts would have been sadly FAR longer. ;)

Book, website, same thing. Though this is reminding me how much I need to get the EII and EIII cross sections books regardless.

I've complained about the size of the Slave I toy, I want a little more play environment, at least the real door in the back, but that's me. I think my comparisons between the Sith Infiltrator and Republic Gunship or ARC-170 are a little better, it's the same pricepoint but they use the space more like the Sith Infiltrator (Slave I is a small mold in part because there are no big flat parts, it's all bulk).

Both the vintage mold and the EII mold, or just one or the other? If the EII mold could hold a Han in the cargo area, it would make me pretty happy, even though it's actually smaller than the vintage. Of course because it was not made for the OT, there was no reason to give it a hold, but it's too bad Hasbro didn't have the foresight to put one in for when they released it as the OT version. Of course, I can't fault Hasbro too much for that. I'll restate though: few people really complain about the scale of the Slave I toy. Otherwise, I'll go with comparisons between the Infiltrator and Republic Gunship. Infiltrator is 26.5 meters long and the gunship is 17.4 (saving you some trouble, JT;) ), so while Infiltrator should be longer, I've got no problem with the Infiltrator toy being the same length as the gunship toy.

I'll chime in that I doubt Lucas okayed the JSF design with any special regard toward making toys. There are just too many holes in that logic.

[dindae]

Let me start by saying I'm very happy Hasbro has started to make new vehicles again. I know that not many people would have been willing to shell out $60 or more for a properly scaled ship because it isn't very exciting of a ship. However for all of those people who seem to be content will the $20, would you have spent $30? I assume that most of you would and aside from fitting into case assortment that stores are already buying I don't see a good reason to not bump the ship up a notch.

[jedi master sal]

Well, I for one am not surprised by this. We expected the scale to be small. Just not as small as the prospect of a $20 toy holds.

I'll get one and use it as a background vehicle. I do forced perspective dioramas anyway, so I can work the scale to fit my diorama. But I'm the exception here.

In no way do I suspect a surprise here. Hasbro will not produce this close to scale.
Half scale (to the queen's ship toy) would have been fine, but we won't get that either.

It IS disapointing to say the least. But I AM gad they are making it at all. I, like most others, just don't have the time or patience to build one from scratch to our liking. So this is going to have to make due. Yeah, it's a poor excuse.

Here's a thought to the Sith speeder. Since it's belly is curved shaped, and it's slightly slim, it could be a PART of the toy. Push in on it and it "clicks" out, push again and it "clicks" into a locked position. (Much like cabinet doors). Since the Infiltrator is going to be scaled down, the speeder would actually fit pretty nicely like that. It could be right under the engines, so the hole that's left from it being removed for play isn't as noticeable. There could even still be a small back door.

I'm not endorsing Hasbro persay for making this the scale they are, but I am agree with those who say they are happy that the ship is even comeing out at all. Especially given Hasbro's recent comments on NOT making new vehicls/ships.


Should it be bigger? YES.
Will they (Hasbro make it the right scale? NO.
Will many who complain about this being the wrong scale still buy it anyway? My feeling is yes. whether they want to admit it or not. If you don't get the Infiltrator now, you may never get it later. (okay, maybe on eBay for big bucks if it does well, or if it tanks at retail you might get it on sale. Point being you'll still get it.)

I feel SW is going to take a downward turn in the near future and it's going to spin off into relative ambiguity. It will be here, but it's allure will (and has already to some point) diminish.

I won't say people shouldn't give their remarks about this, but all this complaining will do is reinforce Hasbro's reasons for NOT making more vehicles in the future. And I for one still want my damned AT-TE. Wrong scale of NOT!!!

So please folks take this with a grain of salt as NOONE has seen this yet. Make a more inofrmed decision, just not now. DO it when you've seen pics and such.

Respectfully,
-Sal

[rbaumhauer]

The A-wing was a really small starfighter.

The Lars Landspeeder has never been made and would be probably less than $20 at retail.

I don't think size and toy design had much to do with each other myself.

They never made the Gian speeder or the smaller battle-droid-on-a-rack carrier - and the Senate speaker's car we did get (with the battle pack) was terribly underscale and if it were actually made to scale, it wouldn't be that much bigger - maybe 1/2 again as big or 1.5 times its current size.

But none of those were vehicles that could be repainted and rereleased the way the Jedi Starfighters have been. Imagine if every Jedi had a visually-recognisable starship, but they were each the size of an X-wing - how many people would buy each one as it came out?

I don't claim to have proof, mind you - this whole discussion of scale just got me thinking.

[JEDIpartner]

I never thought the ship was all that cool anyhow.

[JediTricks]

Because I CAN put a regular 3 3/4" figure in it and I bought that figure for the ship 6 years ago already.That is such a Minirig type of answer - by that logic, you should have bought Hasbro's Ep 1 mini-Gungan Sub and mini-AAT and hung them in the display room.

This feels like the completion of a quest sort of. Even then, I had no reason to buy that softgoods Maul - I think I used less than 10 of them for all my TPM scenes - but that came out and I came up with a reason to buy it - holding out some hope for a Sith Infiltrator.Seems like a cart-before-the-horse excuse for accepting a poor Sith Infiltrator.

Even I'm a little surprised by the price though. I think JT's point about it needing to be the same size as a Gunship is a good one. Mostly I'm amazed that Hasbro is going to bother making this vehicle, given that it has such a small part in a film that most fans claim is their least favorite in the series.Well, Kenner did the AT-ST for the ESB line even though it made only a cameo appearance, but it did something interesting and fit with the scene at hand while the Infiltrator is less interesting and it's way too late.

They are a glutton for punishment aren't they?That's what Hasbro says about us. :p

Both the vintage mold and the EII mold, or just one or the other? If the EII mold could hold a Han in the cargo area, it would make me pretty happy, even though it's actually smaller than the vintage.I've never thought to compare their sizes, I always thought they were the same size. The vintage mold annoys me in large part because the interior has no sculpted panels, it's just the inside of the mold, very ugly. But the Ep 2 version has Jango standing in the doorway and not only is there no doorway on the toy, but there's barely enough room to put his severed head, much less the rest of him.

I'll go with comparisons between the Infiltrator and Republic Gunship. Infiltrator is 26.5 meters long and the gunship is 17.4 (saving you some trouble, JT;)), so while Infiltrator should be longer, I've got no problem with the Infiltrator toy being the same length as the gunship toy.I posted the Gunship's length on the first page. :p I rounded up to 17.5. I think the Gunship is a good comparison because it's wide, it's fairly long, and most importantly, it's tall the way the Infiltrator should be.

[Phantom-like Menace]

So Hasbro has decided we won't buy vehicles, and I really can't argue with that. Most of us are up front about saying we won't and the rest decide they're too expensive even if we do want them.

So Hasbro decides to test the water with vehicles of low pricepoint to see if we will buy them. For some ungodly reason, instead of looking at the scores of vehicles we want that would fit in the $20 pricepoint, they choose one that doesn't fit that pricepoint.

So it sucks without measure, and no one buys it, and "logically" we don't want vehicles at any price.

or

It sucks without measure, and we buy it only to suffer $20 AT-TE's, Royal Yachts, sale barges, and the like.

Then I see Hasbro deciding that we will take scaled-down versions of everything. Have you seen the The Corps Stealth Unit Attack Fighter? I've attached it below. That'll be the size of future fighter craft. Why make a $20 swamp speeder when you can make it the size of a motorcycle, sell it for $10 and we'll buy it up because "at least we're getting it."

It's kind of depressing that Hasbro can release good vehicles that cost $90 and it's too much of a sacrifice for some of us because we think it should be five or ten dollars less, but they can release crap vehicles for $20 and the vastly reduced quality is considered perfectly reasonable sacrifice, despite the fact it should be better and a little more expensive.

[Tycho]

There are some vehicles I want that I care about the scale for, and some I don't mind at all. They are:

Don't care about scale - just get it done:

Sith Infiltrator - make the wings move, seat a reg. Maul figure (softgoods), and fire a couple of plastic missles. I don't mind if the scale is off - it's not that important to me.

Gungan Submarine - seat softgoods Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and JarJar - probably one each in the 3 Bongo compartments (the side 2 were actually cargo holders in the movie). Make the propeller squid tail turn remotely, and maybe have it fire that harpoon in the front (that's actually a steering vane). The size will be compromised as well.

Padme's space yachts: make it seat 4 in the front: Anakin, Padme, C-3PO, and have a space for R2D2. You can alternate those figures with Typho and Obi-Wan. Have a detachable front piece that adds the Episode 3 "winged look" to it included in the box. In the rear, a secret compartment for Obi-Wan to hide in and maybe a bunk bed. This ship will be offscale - especially when displayed as the AOTC version - and the tail will not be movie accurate to one or the other of the two ships. But again I don't care. Just get it done.

The Wookiee Catamaran - just hold 2-4 figures in the "canoes."

The Swamp Speeder - hold 2 clones instead of 4.

The large Homing Spider Droid - it'd be huge if made to scale. Just make it "Gunship sized."

Jabba The Hutt's sailbarge - see Zizzle's Black Pearl from Pirates of the Carribean


Care about the scale: do it right!

The V-wing

Grievous' escape ship that Obi-Wan takes

Senate Speaker cars

The Lars Family Landspeeder

The Gian Speeder

The Corporate Alliance Tank Droid

The Droid Gunship

Various podracers

There are more examples of things that could be done to scale and not-to-scale, but these are just a few that I want, and how I'd buy them.

[plasticfetish]

It's kind of depressing that Hasbro can release good vehicles that cost $90 and it's too much of a sacrifice for some of us because we think it should be five or ten dollars less, but they can release crap vehicles for $20 and the vastly reduced quality is considered perfectly reasonable sacrifice, despite the fact it should be better and a little more expensive.If it's "too much of a sacrifice," it's only because $90 is a pretty hefty investment for some of us. I'd like to see one example of a Star Wars vehicle that sold for around $100 that really owned up to that price anyway. Most of them, even the biggest,
were probably only worth half... the clearance prices (I got my royal Starship for $10) tell that story.

If they're choosing to sell a vehicle for $20, then they're doing it based on a perceived notion of what their customers (mostly kids according to them) are willing to pay. It's a little early to say whether they'll be putting out a product with "vastly reduced quality," but whatever it is, you've got to remember that they're designing and pricing it for parents to buy for their kids.

Collectors are an afterthought, and let's face it... they know that we're suckers, and that enough of us will likely buy the product regardless of price and quality, to justify putting it on the shelves. At the very least, we'll clean up the leftovers once they go on clearance, which is what most of you should be holding out for anyway.

[Tycho]

I disagree about holding out for clearance. PlasticFetish has forgotten the first buyers - not parents, kids, or collectors, but TRU, Target, and Wal-Mart.

The big 3 want to see a profit from stocking these things and they are pretty much so diversified from greeting cards to sports equipment that I haven't really heard whether they investigate who buys their Star Wars toy products.

I know Wal-Mart prefers the big ticket - thus if a Black Pearl ship is on the receipt along with toilet paper, microwave dinners, mouth wash, and vitamin water - they maximize their sales by having Star Wars as a draw for that particular customer who didn't just get their 'grocery items' at a local 99 Cent store.

So Hasbro can decide it's kids or collectors, or both, and still prep an AT-TE but if Wal-Mart decides not to buy it - it just won't happen. Art Asylum had the final Enterprise bridge section with Travis Mayweather's station prototyped and basically ready for the final tooling needed to begin production, and not even an e-tailer (NewForce) could garauntee them enough orders to make it worthwhile.

So the attitude of "I'll wait until it's on clearance" doesn't do the future of the line much good. Besides, if I recall - many of you missed out on B-wings with that strategy.

[plasticfetish]

Besides, if I recall - many of you missed out on B-wings with that strategy.Ouch! He hits me with the one ship I missed out on because I waited too long. ;)

I think the buyers for Target, Wal*Mart, etc. do take into consideration exactly who's buying what product. The people at store level may not care, but I don't doubt that someone is aware of who's spending money, and on what.

My "wait 'til it's on clearance" attitude is generally reserved for those toys -- could be any toy really -- that I'm not 100% sure that I want. If I'm not completely sold on this ship when it hits the shelves, but I still sort of want it, I'm very likely to chance getting it on clearance rather than impulse spend the first time I see it.

But that's just me. I've gotta draw the line and pinch pennies sometimes. ;)

I'm not sure how the Art Asylum reference sells your point though. I mean, if no one was willing to spend the money, then it wasn't a worthy product on the whole. That, and frankly I think AA has always had a weird approach to marketing their stuff.

[TheCivilCollector]

At this point, the only ship I really care about anymore is Grievous' Fighter.

That thing is a SLICK looking ship that would be very easy to do at a (nearly) correct scale. However, I wouldn't mind getting Padme's Flying Wing from AOTC, but that's highly doubtful. Maybe they'll do a titanium of it.

[Phantom-like Menace]

If it's "too much of a sacrifice," it's only because $90 is a pretty hefty investment for some of us. I'd like to see one example of a Star Wars vehicle that sold for around $100 that really owned up to that price anyway. Most of them, even the biggest,
were probably only worth half... the clearance prices (I got my royal Starship for $10) tell that story.

I realize there are people who legitimately can't afford these items. I currently am shaking in my chair with a need to purchase two of the TRU AT-ATs, but I can't catch a break financially right now to get even one. It's the mentality of those who want the vehicle, can afford the vehicle but don't get it because they're quibbling about a few bucks they feel are just too much.

How many of the people who will jump on a Sith Infiltrator for $20 would balk at the idea of paying $90 for an AT-TE that is as long as a Hasbro AT-AT but half as tall?

It's a little early to say whether they'll be putting out a product with "vastly reduced quality," but whatever it is, you've got to remember that they're designing and pricing it for parents to buy for their kids.

As far as it being a little early to judge the quality, how much lower of a pricepoint do they have to quote for this to be a problem? We can walk into a retail store right now and see what we will get for $20. I'm not saying we can't have quality for $20, because there is perfectly good stuff for $20. The point is, for $20 you get something that is arguably worth $20. I'm sure what we get from the Infiltrator is perfectly reasonably priced at $20. We're going to get something that is worth $20 but isn't worth the Sith Infiltrator.

"For a $20 price point, we're going to release Grievous's fighter!" Awesome, that makes sense. For a $20 pricepoint, we're going to release the Swamp Speeder." Awesome, that makes sense. "For a $20 price point, we're going to make Padme's Star Yacht." What? You already have a price point that matches that item. Why are you changing the vehicle for the pricepoint rather than changing the price point for the vehicle?

And as far as parents buying these toys for kids, they've always been for kids but what hasn't always been is scale compromised this dramatically to arrive at a pricepoint. All I can think is that SNL skit with Judge Judy where she says, "Don't give me rabbit poop and tell me it's chocolate."

Collectors are an afterthought, and let's face it... they know that we're suckers, and that enough of us will likely buy the product regardless of price and quality, to justify putting it on the shelves. At the very least, we'll clean up the leftovers once they go on clearance, which is what most of you should be holding out for anyway.

And that paragraph summed up the problem pretty well. We make ourselves afterthoughts and compound the problem by rooting for the item to go on clearance. So we get it for less money, Hasbro loses money and decides not to take risks. No one wins.

[JediTricks]

Then I see Hasbro deciding that we will take scaled-down versions of everything. Have you seen the The Corps Stealth Unit Attack Fighter? I've attached it below. That'll be the size of future fighter craft. Why make a $20 swamp speeder when you can make it the size of a motorcycle, sell it for $10 and we'll buy it up because "at least we're getting it."That made me sad, partly because of how true it rings and partly because The Corps vehicles are really crappy.


Don't care about scale - just get it doneThen why bother doing it if they ain't gonna do it even partly right?

Gungan Submarine - seat softgoods Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and JarJar - probably one each in the 3 Bongo compartments (the side 2 were actually cargo holders in the movie). Make the propeller squid tail turn remotely, and maybe have it fire that harpoon in the front (that's actually a steering vane). The size will be compromised as well.Geez, why would you want this? And at $20, there's no way it'll be wide enough to accomodate 3 figures even in the 3 separate bubbles - and why the hell would you want 3 separate compartments for the figures when that's the ONLY thing it did in the movie was give them a chance to talk? I wouldn't mind having this at $30, but no way in hell it'd work at $20.

Padme's space yachts: make it seat 4 in the front: Anakin, Padme, C-3PO, and have a space for R2D2. You can alternate those figures with Typho and Obi-Wan. Have a detachable front piece that adds the Episode 3 "winged look" to it included in the box. In the rear, a secret compartment for Obi-Wan to hide in and maybe a bunk bed. This ship will be offscale - especially when displayed as the AOTC version - and the tail will not be movie accurate to one or the other of the two ships. But again I don't care. Just get it done.Padme has 1 yacht, the Ep 2 Naboo Royal Yacht that took them to Tatooine and Geonosis. She had the Naboo Royal Cruiser at the beginning of Ep 2 and the Naboo Star Skiff in Ep 3, all of which were pretty big. There's no way in hell you'll fit 4 figures into a $20 vehicle of any of that shape - hell, you can barely fit 4 figures into the Naboo Royal Starship toy when it's closed and that was initially a $100 mold!

The Wookiee Catamaran - just hold 2-4 figures in the "canoes."This is one I don't want at any price, but due to its simplistic design I think you could actually get it into a $20 pricepoint if it was partly unassembled.

The Swamp Speeder - hold 2 clones instead of 4.The Clone Swamp Speeder already holds only 2 guys. I'm not sure I'd want to pay $20 for this thing, it's basically a wide desk with 2 easy chairs, a fan, and 2 small turrets, but it'd fit with room to spare in the $20 pricepoint.

Jabba The Hutt's sailbarge - see Zizzle's Black Pearl from Pirates of the CarribeanYou wouldn't pay $20 for a Sailbarge.


Care about the scale: do it right!So now you're picky.

Grievous' escape ship that Obi-Wan takes"General Grievous' Starfighter", yeah, I'd like to seem them do this one too, it'd likely work as a $20, they should make the tail work like it did in the movie.

[JON9000]

Most vehicles naturally fit the $20 scale, thank heavens.

I think only the most prominent vehicles from the movies deserve large scaling. The Millenium Falcon was a toy you *had* to have at a reasonable scale. Anything else is dangerous. Marking $100 vehicles down to $10 is proof positive that they don't sell, unless you make it an exclusive and cause a shortage, thereby angering those that were not able to get it.

Given the business reality here, I would rather have a $20 Sith Infiltrator that everyone can afford and is readily available than one that is expensive and only scalpers can get.

[pbarnard]

Plus how many vehicles have been scale accurate in Star Wars to date?

A-Wing, TIE Fighter (recently), TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor (debateable), T-47 Snow Speeder (Debatable), Speeder Bike, Luke's XP-38, Zam Wessel's Speeder, Anakin's Speeder, Maul's Speeder Bike, Dooku's Speeder Bike, Swoop Trooper, The Jedi Starfighters.

They aren't doing too well in that regard. Just another in a long line of not scale, not going to try, but graciously keeping it affordable for all.

[Devo]

Sure its not like this is without precedent. The Sandcrawler comes to mind. I didn't have the vintage one nor ever see pictures of it with figures alongside so when the pictures of the new one started appearing on the web and then I saw it in person I was hugely let-down. Its tiny!! The Bantha is almost as big as it in all dimensions. Yet in the film it was gargantuan. I did buy it though because i'll take whatever we can get for the OT, I'm sure they'll never make a new one.

For the prequels I will be less forgiving. I'm not so into prequel toys that I'll buy something 'simply because'. This thing is going to be so small as to be beyond absurd. Jedi starfighter size?? I can understand some scaling down, they even scale down vehicles that could easily be made fully to scale while being at a small pricepoint - such as the AOTC airspeeders - but to this extent its too far. Firing missiles, an opening canopy and retractable landing gear...and heres a Darth Maul figure to tower over his ship...or should that be pod?

[Bacta Beast]

Hasbro!!!! It's not too late!!! Fix this mistake!!!! I would rather pay $30 to $40 dollars for a more correctly scaled "Infiltrator". And I'm cheap!!!! Seriously, We've been paying $40 for X-Wings and Ties that we already have from TRU. Those are way over priced, especially since their existing molds. And the AT-AT for $80!!! C'mon!!!! You may as well do this one right! It's not one the kids ave been clamoring for, it's for the fans. And you know we like it done right. Hasbro, please take your time with this and do it right. I for one would rather pay $20 more and have it right, than save money by having it too small!

[jedi master sal]

Hasbro!!!! It's not too late!!! Fix this mistake!!!! I would rather pay $30 to $40 dollars for a more correctly scaled "Infiltrator". And I'm cheap!!!! Seriously, We've been paying $40 for X-Wings and Ties that we already have from TRU. Those are way over priced, especially since their existing molds. And the AT-AT for $80!!! C'mon!!!! You may as well do this one right! It's not one the kids ave been clamoring for, it's for the fans. And you know we like it done right. Hasbro, please take your time with this and do it right. I for one would rather pay $20 more and have it right, than save money by having it too small!



Here here! I agree completely.

[JON9000]

At this point I think it useful to remind people how much shelf space these large vehicles take up. You are paying for more than the costs of producing a toy. Hasbro is really in a no win situation with vehicles.

In spite of my rooting for cheaper vehicles, I woulda really dug a large sandcrawler. ;) Then again I didn't get the small one because $45 seemed obscene for something that small.

[pbarnard]

At this point I think it useful to remind people how much shelf space these large vehicles take up. You are paying for more than the costs of producing a toy. Hasbro is really in a no win situation with vehicles.

In spite of my rooting for cheaper vehicles, I woulda really dug a large sandcrawler. ;) Then again I didn't get the small one because $45 seemed obscene for something that small.

Exactly. In reality, it's what Wal-Mart wants, Wal-Mart gets.

[TheCivilCollector]

I really don't see the big deal about this. If the toy isn't to your taste, don't buy it. It will send a far greater message to Hasbro than complaining will.

Personally, I don't see the problem with scaling down a second-tier vehicle. It had about 30 seconds of screen time and the toy would be the size of the Royal Starship if they wanted to really do it justice. I'm not saying it should be mini-rig size, but it is a toy, after all. They're going to make something kids can actually play with.

I've always felt they could do a reasonable version of it about the size of a Power FX X-Wing (approximate length, not a part-for part comparison), but there are those who feel I am very wrong about this.

If you really want one to scale, you could just make it yourself, and feel secure in the fact that you (at the very least) have what you wanted.

I think the best example of decently done scaling-down was the outrider. Small, yes, but I think it was fairly well done, and doesn't look ridiculous on the shelf.

[El Chuxter]

Wait, since we've been pointing out spelling errors in titles today, we may not have to worry. Hasbo's making this, not Hasbro. :p

[TheCivilCollector]

Wait, since we've been pointing out spelling errors in titles today, we may not have to worry. Hasbo's making this, not Hasbro. :p

You haven't heard of Hasbo?" The non-union, south of the border subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc....

[Turbowars]

Wait Hasbro's Unionized?:cross-eye

Believe me I WONT be buying this ship and I will complain at the same time. Hasbro needs a kick in the pants.

[plasticfetish]

Wait, since we've been pointing out spelling errors in titles todaySmart a**! :p&

[jedi master sal]

Exactly. In reality, it's what Wal-Mart wants, Wal-Mart gets.

But why should it? The Infiltrator SHOULD be bigger. And since Wal*Mart and Target are both set against selling big toys because of shelf space and TRU ISN'T, then this should be a TRU exclusive!

Besides, TRU needs all the help it can get! It's not ALL TRU's fault for their situation. Collectors (from all genre's not just SW), kids and parents alike, have taken to buying from the big box storres like WM and Target and TRU has suffered because they don't have the diversity of other stock. So they can't "low-ball" prices on toys. Why do you guys think they were trying to merge Babies R Us into many of their stores? This is one reason. Diversification of product enables them to discount a little bit more than they would have had they remained solely a toy store. It's a sad state when we no longer go to the toy store for TOYS!!!

I really don't see the big deal about this. If the toy isn't to your taste, don't buy it. It will send a far greater message to Hasbro than complaining will.

Not buying the toy and not COMPLAINING will only send this message to Hasbro-->"Ships do not sell" OR "Star Wars toys are dying". NO we MUST complain! We MUST tell them EXACTLY what WE want. Screw Wal*Mart. If we're NOT buying the $20 ship regardless then WM is going to get screwed on those too. It's about damn time Hasbro listens to OUR concerns. Look, there's more than one game in town and Hasbro should NOT be put into a strangle hold by certain retailors. I'm CERTAIN that if given the opportunity TRU would POUNCE on the Infiltrator as an exclusive. They MAKE room for big toys. They ARE still a toy store regardless of the additions mentioned above.

Wait Hasbro's Unionized?:cross-eye

Believe me I WONT be buying this ship and I will complain at the same time. Hasbro needs a kick in the pants.


Not just in the pants, but square in the nuts! So far up they are in their throat. I'm am SO tired of being ignored by them. Sure they'll give us the odd ball figure here and there, but not like the likes of an AT-TE for instance.

Damn, look how long it's taken for the Infiltrator! And we have to "settle" for this POS small version? It's ridiculous.

Ok, nuff said for now by me. I need to get a coffee and start of the business day...

[pbarnard]

But why should it? The Infiltrator SHOULD be bigger. And since Wal*Mart and Target are both set against selling big toys because of shelf space and TRU ISN'T, then this should be a TRU exclusive!

Maybe, but if Hasbro continues to want access to the store and the number of consumers (remember, Wal-Mart is the #1 toy store/buying place), they'll do what they want. Hasbro just makes/suggests how to market. The stores control everything else. So unless you want them to go away from the WM/Targets and only existing as exclusives, SW will go the way of GI Joe recently since TRU was GI Joes only buyer.

As to it should be bigger, sure it should. AS should the Millenium Falcon, Queen's Starship, Outrider, X-Wings (even those based off the FX one), Y-Wing etc. But they aren't. It'll be another in the long line of underscaled/sized vehicles.

[JediTricks]

I think the best example of decently done scaling-down was the outrider. Small, yes, but I think it was fairly well done, and doesn't look ridiculous on the shelf.Any other examples you can think of? I only ask because the vehicle you cite is considered by myself and others here to be absolutely the worst possibly job Hasbro could have done with that toy, it's an abomination.

[Devo]

Its quite likely its going to be even smaller than I initially predicted it would be when the rumour started. I said it would be the vertical height of Vaders TIE but have the long nose...or is it tail? Now though, correct me if I'm wrong, Hasbros new idea of 'starfighter size' is the prequel jedi starfighters and not something like Vaders TIE which would be more in the middle-range as far as they're now concerned. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong to think its going to be barely bigger than a delta 7 ship. But thats my feeling right now. And that size is simply ridiculous underscaling for the Infiltrator. Vaders TIE size would be ever so slightly more passable for me.

[Phantom-like Menace]

Besides, TRU needs all the help it can get! It's not ALL TRU's fault for their situation. Collectors (from all genre's not just SW), kids and parents alike, have taken to buying from the big box storres like WM and Target and TRU has suffered because they don't have the diversity of other stock. So they can't "low-ball" prices on toys. Why do you guys think they were trying to merge Babies R Us into many of their stores? This is one reason. Diversification of product enables them to discount a little bit more than they would have had they remained solely a toy store. It's a sad state when we no longer go to the toy store for TOYS!!!

Yes! Toys R Us love! The craziest part of the entire thing, is that Wal-Mart and other discount department store retailers are the driving factor behind our getting gypped out of higher end products, but some of us are more than happy to see TRU fail. Do you think Wal-Mart would ever put out an AT-TE, people? HELL no! If we hadn't left Toys R Us in droves for cheaper products, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in right now. It's more proof for me that in our capitalist society we consumers are the part that no longer works.

Not buying the toy and not COMPLAINING will only send this message to Hasbro-->"Ships do not sell" OR "Star Wars toys are dying". NO we MUST complain! We MUST tell them EXACTLY what WE want.

Yep, our intended message is not, "We won't buy this," because that's just a symptom of the problem: our real message: "You're falling way short of even our rapidly diminishing expectations."

I think the best example of decently done scaling-down was the outrider. Small, yes, but I think it was fairly well done, and doesn't look ridiculous on the shelf.

Any other examples you can think of? I only ask because the vehicle you cite is considered by myself and others here to be absolutely the worst possibly job Hasbro could have done with that toy, it's an abomination.

Seconded. I nearly did a spit take there.

We continue to ignore the primary message of this thread. While we can cite exceptions to the rule (sandcrawler, Outrider, etc.), we're ignoring two major points.

First we can cite examples until the wee hours of the morning of Hasbro giving us better-scaled vehicles, which makes these better-scaled items the rule, not the exception, and if we shouldn't expect similar, better scale (I.e. not perfect 1:18 scale on all vehicles but simply a remotely consistent, basis for compromise, a basis which should logically be the greater number of vehicles that came before the Infiltrator), then we've already lost a battle and handed victory right to economic convenience.

The second thing we're ignoring, is that these exceptions to better scale that we keep citing . . . yeah, they didn't do so well at retail in terms of sales. I assume it was due to the fact that descriminating consumers decided they were too much of a compromise to scale and opted not to purchase them. As I've said in this thread, "I would do evil and unconscionable things to [pick up] an Outrider in the same style as the Hasbro Millennium Falcon." As far as the Outrider they gave us instead goes, I would simply use a pooper scooper to pick that up. That way I don't get any on my hands.

[TheCivilCollector]

Well, maybe I'm the only one that thought the Outrider was a decent toy. It's a reasonable facsimile of the ship, and Dash Rendar fits right inside.

First we can cite examples until the wee hours of the morning of Hasbro giving us better-scaled vehicles, which makes these better-scaled items the rule, not the exception, and if we shouldn't expect similar, better scale (I.e. not perfect 1:18 scale on all vehicles but simply a remotely consistent, basis for compromise, a basis which should logically be the greater number of vehicles that came before the Infiltrator), then we've already lost a battle and handed victory right to economic convenience.


I think in the end, the fact that everyone seems to be overlooking is the fact that these are toys we're talking about, and not Master Replicas. It's Ok for a toy to be out of scale because it's really, unarguably, meant to be played with. If a kid gets the same play value (or more) out of an underscale $20 18" toy than he would an accurate 1:18 scale toy for considerably more money that fewer would buy, what's the incentive for hasbro to make the more expensive item?

Why is it OK for most collectors that the AT-AT, or Millenium Falcon (and many others) are way underscale and not the Sith Infiltrator? Given a consistent basis for compromise, as Phantom-like Menace pointed out, considering the greater number of underscale vehicles before, wouldn't an underscale Infiltrator be the "norm", and not the compromise?

[Turbowars]

Damn I thought Hasbro was Master Replicas. :cross-eye

[Bacta Beast]

Damn I thought Hasbro was Master Replicas. :cross-eye

How in the world could anyone confuse those two? There's a biiiiiig difference! One of those two pays attention to the people that buy their product and gives them what they want!

[Bacta Beast]

Yes! Toys R Us love! The craziest part of the entire thing, is that Wal-Mart and other discount department store retailers are the driving factor behind our getting gypped out of higher end products, but some of us are more than happy to see TRU fail. Do you think Wal-Mart would ever put out an AT-TE, people? HELL no! If we hadn't left Toys R Us in droves for cheaper products, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in right now..

That's ludicrous! In a post 911 economy, with gas prices going through the roof, we're supposed to feel bad for TRU and and spend more money for action figures (that aren't a necessity) for what reason? Because if we don't we're greedy capitalists?:confused:

Look, I love taking a family trip to TRU. But there were times that their figures were over a dollar more than what I would pay at Wal-Mart or Target. On top of the fact that I could never find what I was looking for there. Also while scalpers seem to hit Wal-mart harder, the employees at TRU can be an even bigger obstacle! Now from the "Sith" line going forward I've seen TRu make big improvements! They were match the Wal-Mart price on figures and they're selction was kick-a@#! I loved TRU on the last "Star Wars Night", Wal-Mart (around here anyway) did nothing but dissapoint. But c'mon, between Hasbro, or TRU (Hasbro always says that they don't set pricing:rolleyes:) someone needs to bring down the price of some of these exclusives! The AT-AT, Dagobah X-Wing, Tie-Fighter, and Republic Gunship, are all way over priced. Especially given the state of our economy and the fact that they're just repaints.

Having said that, I go back to my original point. I would gladly pay (I don't care who has it, TRU is fine with me) $30 to $50 for a decent scaled Sith inflitrator. I don't think it should cost $70 or $80. If they can make a small one for $20, they should be able to make a larger version for a little more without going nuts!

Maybe Wal-Mart wouldn't carry an AT-TE right now, I don't know, they're turning into total idiots and trying to alienate the only demographic they have in favor of one they're never going to please!

It's more proof for me that in our capitalist society we consumers are the part that no longer works.

I can't agree with that. If you give people what they want, at a price they can afford, it will work everytime.

[El Chuxter]

Toys R Us has made some incredibly stupid decisions, like remodeling all their stores about thirty times in a ten-year period, making the layout more illogical and tougher to navigate each time, despite being in the red.

Oh, and closing down stores that are were the only dedicated toy stores for miles in some areas, while leaving a large number open in a small area in others.

The customer service that pales in comparison to even Wal-Mart's and the unwillingness to part with total dogs (I bet you could still buy some Battlefield Earth toys today at most TRUs) certainly doesn't help, either.

And let's not forget essentially dumping the collector market flat on their arse, though they should be able to easily tell that collectors once accounted for a large part of their sales and have always been marginalized by their competition.

Oooh! Oooh! How about severing their ties with amazon.com in such a way that involved no communication whatsoever to customers, so that baby registries at babysrus.com were suddenly haywire and all preorders for upcoming products were abruptly cancelled?

I'm all for supporting TRU, and I despise WM. But TRU as a whole has made some really stupid mistakes recently, and if they ever do actually go under, they've got what's coming to them.

[Jargo]

You know, if hasbro had kept quiet about it, and secretly posted to guage reactions they would know that people aren't going to be happy about a ship that large being so underscaled. fair enough on the really huge ships and vehicles. there's no way as a toy that they could economically produce such a thing. but slight reductions in scale on things like the snub fighters is acceptable because the scaling reduction is not so great.
had the millenium falcon been outrider sized there would be this same outcry. no-one would go for that. if the royal starship had been y-wing sized no-one would have gone for that.
speaking personally I'm not going for anything unless it's Tatooine based. And OT. as far as vehicles go anyway. So for me the only large vehicles i want to see is an Imperial landing craft and Jabba's sail barge (yet understand that due to large scale they would be downsized. I'll accept a shuttle sized landing craft and if need be make my own sail barge or half of it anyway.
Other than that the landspeeders and swoops.
In a celebration year I'm more concerned that their vehicle line contains at least some of those small vehicles from Mos Eisley. Xp-38 landspeeder, Ubbrikkian Z001-9000 repulsorlift speeder, Mobquet A1 deluxe floater, Void Spider, The swoop that almost collides with the Ronto in the SE of ANH.
In Mos Espa in TPM there's a red Flash speeder, a green XP-34 landspeeder, the rickshaw pulled by RIC-920, plus a couple more speeders and swoops seen in long shot which look reasonably cool.
I'd sooner spend my money on smaller accurately detailed vehicles than large compromised to hell vehicles anyday.
And it strikes me that if the current economic climate won't support larger vehicles then they should wait, hold fire on those and concentrate on the smaller craft until such time as the economy improves and retailers are better able to facillitate the sale of big box items again.
I mean forgetting my personal taste for tatooine stuff there's about a million other small craft they can do from other locations, the clone swamp speeder, the coruscant air taxi and various airspeeders, twin pod cloud car Which could be repackaged as a concept version in the original McQuarrie colour scheme of blue), Echo base and Yavin base troop/supplies transport vehicles,
Naboo air taxi, Battle droid rack transport sled, Gian speeder, They could correctly detail Grievous's wheelbike so he sits on the correct side and improve those claw footed legs on it. (There's actually more than one in the movie if you look carefully so they could repackage it with Grievous or an Utapau warrior), Grievous's starship, Yoda's shuttle pods (Kashyyk and Dagobah), and so on and so forth.

As far as I'm concerned those smaller vehicles are a helluva lot more fun to look at, to handle and to display. Not to mention that from a finacial standpoint, any exclusives are a lot less expensive as I end up having to pay the overinflated prices on imported stock.

In summary, this downsized infiltrator is a waste. orf time and hasbro's money and resources. They should have waited.

[Turbowars]

How in the world could anyone confuse those two? There's a biiiiiig difference! One of those two pays attention to the people that buy their product and gives them what they want!You do know I was being sarcastic. :yes:

[Bacta Beast]

As far as I'm concerned those smaller vehicles are a helluva lot more fun to look at, to handle and to display. Not to mention that from a finacial standpoint, any exclusives are a lot less expensive as I end up having to pay the overinflated prices on imported stock. .

Oh they're great . .when Hasbro produces actual pilots for them (coughcoruscantspeederscough)!

In summary, this downsized infiltrator is a waste. of time and hasbro's money and resources. They should have waited.[/QUOTE]

Here! Here!

One of the problems with comparing this to ships that Hasbro has already released, is that with the AT-AT, Falcon, and Sandcrawler, shuttle, etc... They were using existing molds that were constructed back before fans had an internet forum to try to voice our feelings to the corporate gawds!! This is a vehicle that we the fans have been clamoring for since 1999. Then after getting our hopes up by telling us they're going to make it, they announce they're going to screw it up! Would it kill Hasbro to try to get some input from the fans on this? I've responded to Hasbro poles before, and never did any of them ask . . "At what price range would you consider purchasing a "Sith Inflitrator"? $20, $30 to $40, $50 to $60.
Would you be interested in buying a smaller, out of scale model? yes or no?
I wish we could put this to Hasbro in one of the weekly questions.... "Do you folks realize you're blowing it with the Sith Infiltrator?"

I sure don't want to hear about the "kid" market on this one. It's been so long since the movie came out and it had so little screen time that most kids aren't going to care about it. It's not going to draw their attention away from a transforming Millenium Falcon, or whatever crappy japaname thing kids are buying these days. Are kids the ones putting down $40 for the TRU Tie Fighter and the Dagobah X-Wing? Not When their parents can buy then a Vader Tie fighter and a Jedi Starfighter at the same price! If they (Hasbro) have decide to sculpt this thing, they may as well take a little time with it and do it right! I think most of us understand that it won't be perfect to scale, but c'mon, $20 worth of "Infiltrator" isn't going to cut it!! We need to at least be able to store the speeder in it.

[Bacta Beast]

You do know I was being sarcastic. :yes:

Hey, I know. right back 'atcha:thumbsup:

[plasticfetish]

Look, I love taking a family trip to TRU. But there were times that their figures were over a dollar more than what I would pay at Wal-Mart or Target.

I can't agree with that. If you give people what they want, at a price they can afford, it will work everytime.I don't feel sorry for Toys R Us at all. It's not like we're talking about some little mom-and-pop store that has to charge a a little more to pay the electric bill, we're talking about a big company with years of experience. The company that invented the "wearhouse" idea for toys, but they've been beat at their own game by people that know how to compete.

I saw Marvel Icons figures at TRU this morning for $16.99 and then at Target for $14.99. Which store do you think got my money? I couldn't agree with you more.

Toys R Us has made some incredibly stupid decisionsBattlefield Earth! Hahahaha...

Toy R Us is a lazy, unimaginative company with idiots running it from the store manager level on up.

I sure don't want to hear about the "kid" market on this one. It's been so long since the movie came out and it had so little screen time that most kids aren't going to care about it.I agree, which is why -- though I understand their logic in wanting to market (and price) to the kids, I don't see why they're bothering at this point.

I wouldn't be shocked if they changed their mind after reading (if they do) most people's comments.

[Phantom-like Menace]

That's ludicrous! In a post 911 economy, with gas prices going through the roof, we're supposed to feel bad for TRU and and spend more money for action figures (that aren't a necessity) for what reason? Because if we don't we're greedy capitalists?:confused:

Did I say anything about feeling bad for TRU? And did I say people who fit the description I gave were greedy capitalists or did I say they were the nonfunctioning part of capitalism, which would make them not capitalistic? In answer, I didn't say anything about feeling bad for TRU, though I'm touched anyone would think I'm that nice a guy. This is all about helping ourselves. You can complain because TRU doesn't have the monopoly power to lowball every manufacturer into near bankruptcy with corrupt buying policies so as to save you a couple of bucks all that you want, and you can even show me where TRU has tried illegal tricks to increase their bottom line as much as you want (if indeed you desired to go there), but the bottom line for us is that we would be getting more vehicles more of the time and of better quality if we had kept our support with TRU. That's good for us, and I don't give a rat's *** if that's good or bad for TRU. And for the second part, I said consumers are the part of capitalism that no longer works (I.e. if not part of capitalism, not greedy capitalists).

So, yeah, if all you want is to save a buck on figures, then sure, Toys R Us is as bad as all that. But if you wanted the old days of large scale vehicles on shelves (or any vehicles as far as Wal-Mart is concerned), then you're only hurting yourself by fiddling as TRU burns.

I can't agree with that. If you give people what they want, at a price they can afford, it will work everytime.

Well I guess it would depend on what you're trying to accomplish. If by it working, you mean they artificially devalue merchandise to such an extent that your competitors not only can't keep up but are seen as being greedy because they don't have the monopoly power to set prices at a competitive level and the end result is we fight for the scraps to the point some of us are eagerly anticipating this poor offering by Hasbro, then yes it worked. If by it working, you mean a free market economy gives us and manufacturers choices to purchase merchandise at fair value with the end result being we get all the vehicles we clamor for in the quality we have come to expect, then no, I don't think it worked.

[Turbowars]

In a nut shell I think the Infiltrater should be at the 39.99 price mark and should be in a box the size of the gunship.

[Phantom-like Menace]

In a nut shell I think the Infiltrater should be at the 39.99 price mark and should be in a box the size of the gunship.

Huh, yeah, that was my point somewhere along the line too.;)

[Turbowars]

Huh, yeah, that was my point somewhere along the line too.;)Wait a second... does that mean 2 of us on this board agree? Wow now that's something new. :thumbsup:

[Phantom-like Menace]

Wait a second... does that mean 2 of us of this board agree? Wow now that's something new. :thumbsup:

It'll happen on occasion.

[jedi master sal]

Why is it OK for most collectors that the AT-AT, or Millenium Falcon (and many others) are way underscale and not the Sith Infiltrator?


I'll only answer for myself and say that they ar already freakin' huge. A to scale Falcon or AT-AT would be massive. (That's why I went out and tracked down one of the 6ft TRU display Falcon's to get that scale)

I would never expect Hasbro to make those ships to scale. Heck, I thinkk most of us are saying that we don't expect Hasbro to make the Infiltrator to scale. Just LARGER than a $20 pricepoint ship is. Jedistarfighter size is WAY to small for this vessel. Falcon size is about right. Considering that Hasbro can package this with the wings either folded or disassembled, the box CAN be rather small. With the landing gear stored, and the wings disassembled the height of the ship could be 7-8 inches and the packaging the same thickness as the AT-AT's box, but shorter in height as it would be packaged on its side. This ship scream of being at least a $40 ship. But I'd pay $60 easy for a decently scaled Infiltrator.

The idea that every kid has a chance to get this vehicle at the $20 pricepoint is valid. But I counterargue that not every kid who likes SW is going to want this ship, let alone even know in what movie or who it's for.

So why NOT make it bigger, charge 3 times the price, make it an exclusive and be done with it. TRU would certainly do well by sellign these.

All I can picture when this does come out is a glut of crappy sized Infiltrators clogging precious shelf space at WM, Target and yes TRU. If every retailer gets this ship, unless it's produced and shipped in low quantities, it's going to stink up those shelves for some time.

Which can be good news for Target shoppers as Target will undoubtedly blow it out for cheap. But what kind of message does that send then?

[jedi master sal]

If you give people what they want, at a price they can afford, it will work everytime.

This is quite possibly one of the smartest responses I've ever read on SSG.

[jedi master sal]

Toys R Us has made some incredibly stupid decisions, like remodeling all their stores about thirty times in a ten-year period, making the layout more illogical and tougher to navigate each time, despite being in the red.

Oh, and closing down stores that are were the only dedicated toy stores for miles in some areas, while leaving a large number open in a small area in others.

The customer service that pales in comparison to even Wal-Mart's and the unwillingness to part with total dogs (I bet you could still buy some Battlefield Earth toys today at most TRUs) certainly doesn't help, either.

And let's not forget essentially dumping the collector market flat on their arse, though they should be able to easily tell that collectors once accounted for a large part of their sales and have always been marginalized by their competition.

Oooh! Oooh! How about severing their ties with amazon.com in such a way that involved no communication whatsoever to customers, so that baby registries at babysrus.com were suddenly haywire and all preorders for upcoming products were abruptly cancelled?

I'm all for supporting TRU, and I despise WM. But TRU as a whole has made some really stupid mistakes recently, and if they ever do actually go under, they've got what's coming to them.


Ya know, when you put it THAT way....heh.

Still, I'm more for diversity of retailers. It helps to keep the other ones "honest." Imagine SW collecting if TRU DID drop off. That would pretty much onnly leave WM and Target running the show. I think they'd both agree to raise prices to bolster their bottom line with the license. Having TRU around even if they are consistently a little more expensive keeps WM and Target from going crazy and REALLY screwing us. And by us I don't just mean collectors, but kids alike. And this transcends SW. It would mean Lego, Hot Wheels (though I don't collect this), Marvel Legneds, etc....would all go up preternaturally.

[jedi master sal]

You know, if hasbro had kept quiet about it, and secretly posted to guage reactions they would know that people aren't going to be happy about a ship that large being so underscaled. fair enough on the really huge ships and vehicles. there's no way as a toy that they could economically produce such a thing. but slight reductions in scale on things like the snub fighters is acceptable because the scaling reduction is not so great.
had the millenium falcon been outrider sized there would be this same outcry. no-one would go for that. if the royal starship had been y-wing sized no-one would have gone for that.
speaking personally I'm not going for anything unless it's Tatooine based. And OT. as far as vehicles go anyway. So for me the only large vehicles i want to see is an Imperial landing craft and Jabba's sail barge (yet understand that due to large scale they would be downsized. I'll accept a shuttle sized landing craft and if need be make my own sail barge or half of it anyway.
Other than that the landspeeders and swoops.
In a celebration year I'm more concerned that their vehicle line contains at least some of those small vehicles from Mos Eisley. Xp-38 landspeeder, Ubbrikkian Z001-9000 repulsorlift speeder, Mobquet A1 deluxe floater, Void Spider, The swoop that almost collides with the Ronto in the SE of ANH.
In Mos Espa in TPM there's a red Flash speeder, a green XP-34 landspeeder, the rickshaw pulled by RIC-920, plus a couple more speeders and swoops seen in long shot which look reasonably cool.
I'd sooner spend my money on smaller accurately detailed vehicles than large compromised to hell vehicles anyday.
And it strikes me that if the current economic climate won't support larger vehicles then they should wait, hold fire on those and concentrate on the smaller craft until such time as the economy improves and retailers are better able to facillitate the sale of big box items again.
I mean forgetting my personal taste for tatooine stuff there's about a million other small craft they can do from other locations, the clone swamp speeder, the coruscant air taxi and various airspeeders, twin pod cloud car Which could be repackaged as a concept version in the original McQuarrie colour scheme of blue), Echo base and Yavin base troop/supplies transport vehicles,
Naboo air taxi, Battle droid rack transport sled, Gian speeder, They could correctly detail Grievous's wheelbike so he sits on the correct side and improve those claw footed legs on it. (There's actually more than one in the movie if you look carefully so they could repackage it with Grievous or an Utapau warrior), Grievous's starship, Yoda's shuttle pods (Kashyyk and Dagobah), and so on and so forth.

As far as I'm concerned those smaller vehicles are a helluva lot more fun to look at, to handle and to display. Not to mention that from a finacial standpoint, any exclusives are a lot less expensive as I end up having to pay the overinflated prices on imported stock.

In summary, this downsized infiltrator is a waste. orf time and hasbro's money and resources. They should have waited.


Wow, this was so well said, i don't know if I can add any more....though I'll try!

[jedi master sal]

Oh they're great . .when Hasbro produces actual pilots for them (coughcoruscantspeederscough)!

In summary, this downsized infiltrator is a waste. of time and hasbro's money and resources. They should have waited.

Here! Here!

One of the problems with comparing this to ships that Hasbro has already released, is that with the AT-AT, Falcon, and Sandcrawler, shuttle, etc... They were using existing molds that were constructed back before fans had an internet forum to try to voice our feelings to the corporate gawds!! This is a vehicle that we the fans have been clamoring for since 1999. Then after getting our hopes up by telling us they're going to make it, they announce they're going to screw it up! Would it kill Hasbro to try to get some input from the fans on this? I've responded to Hasbro poles before, and never did any of them ask . . "At what price range would you consider purchasing a "Sith Inflitrator"? $20, $30 to $40, $50 to $60.
Would you be interested in buying a smaller, out of scale model? yes or no?
I wish we could put this to Hasbro in one of the weekly questions.... "Do you folks realize you're blowing it with the Sith Infiltrator?"

I sure don't want to hear about the "kid" market on this one. It's been so long since the movie came out and it had so little screen time that most kids aren't going to care about it. It's not going to draw their attention away from a transforming Millenium Falcon, or whatever crappy japaname thing kids are buying these days. Are kids the ones putting down $40 for the TRU Tie Fighter and the Dagobah X-Wing? Not When their parents can buy then a Vader Tie fighter and a Jedi Starfighter at the same price! If they (Hasbro) have decide to sculpt this thing, they may as well take a little time with it and do it right! I think most of us understand that it won't be perfect to scale, but c'mon, $20 worth of "Infiltrator" isn't going to cut it!! We need to at least be able to store the speeder in it.[/QUOTE]


Again I have to completely agree.

[jedi master sal]

Wait a second... does that mean 2 of us on this board agree? Wow now that's something new. :thumbsup:

Count me in on agreement. So that's three!

[TheCivilCollector]

Jedistarfighter size is WAY to small for this vessel. Falcon size is about right. Considering that Hasbro can package this with the wings either folded or disassembled, the box CAN be rather small. With the landing gear stored, and the wings disassembled the height of the ship could be 7-8 inches......

Hell, I'll easily agree with you there. I've always thought they could start with about a 6" sphere for the cockpit and base everything off that scale. At that size, it would be a little longer than the larger scale x-wing.

I'll bet money that in the end, the cockpit section will be about as big as the classic TIEs (give or take), with slightly underscale nose and wing sections. Something larger would be optimal, but I don't think that it's too bad.

And really, as collectors interested in accuracy, we've been pretty lucky. Most movie-based toylines have nothing BUT severely underscale vehicles. I'm thinking about stuff like this:

http://www.toyrocket.com/assets/photos/TNAE11529f.jpg

[JediTricks]

Well, maybe I'm the only one that thought the Outrider was a decent toy. It's a reasonable facsimile of the ship, and Dash Rendar fits right inside.I would be surprised if anybody else came to its defense. It's not a reasonable facsimile, it's the wrong shape, the wrong dimensions, the wrong color, the wrong functionality; these are reasonable facsimiles of the ship:
http://cache.lego.com/images/shop/prod/6211-0000-xx-33-2.jpg
http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=/sote/soteRoutrider.jpg
http://cargobay.starwars.com/webapps/cargobay/item-detail/7990/6515
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Outrider.png

And as for fitting Dash inside, it's not exactly a perfect fit, the seat doesn't even come close to holding him, he has to be crammed in there in the most awkward manner possible while still in a sitting position: http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=/sote/soteoutridercockpit.jpg

This is quite possibly one of the smartest responses I've ever read on SSG.Yes, but it's also far too vague to be a realistically applicable business philosophy, "the people" can't agree on what they want on anything, you have a wide market base with differing wants and opinions. The safest thing to do is shoot for the middle, but this should not be a set of blinders placed on the brand managers, sometimes you have to do what's right for the brand or the product instead of what focus groups tell you they want.


And as for TRU, no doubt they've made some stupendous business blunders, and big hunters WM and Target have been eroding their business base, but TRU is the center of the toy industry, if TRU folds the toy industry will splinter and implode. Without TRU there would be no year-round toy business, the toy departments are a low-return nuisance to WM & Target, they only keep them around to entice housewives into coming in to buy their kid a toy and walking out with a microwave oven, and WM has been considering shrinking their toy sections and even eliminating them except during the holiday season, neither company wants what is best for the toy industry, they only want what is cheapest and most effective for them to get customers into their doors so they can point them to other sections of the store that are more profitable.

[Jargo]

oooh i forget who it was or which site but someone made an absolutely awesome outrider model. I think he scaled it to the hasbro millenium falcon or possible bigger but the detailing and accuracy was amazing. I've got a picture of it somewhere I'll try and dig it out.

[TheCivilCollector]

I would be surprised if anybody else came to its defense. It's not a reasonable facsimile, it's the wrong shape, the wrong dimensions, the wrong color, the wrong functionality; these are reasonable facsimiles of the ship:

JT, not trying to offend you, but sometimes it sounds like you wouldn't be happy with something unless you could take calipers, a scale, and a color chart to something and it would all check out.

That's fine, I'm not making fun of you, I guess I'm just not that picky about a toy. If i'd have paid $300+ for a Museum Replicas, you'd bet I'd be picky about it, though.

Toys should adhere to a different set of accuracy rules, IMHO

If you ask me, this (unpainted proto) isn't so bad:
http://www.toysrgus.com/images-produ/outrider3.jpg

Daddypants, If you can find that, I'd lo