So why all of a sudden George? Did the fans cries get to you?

[scruffziller]

Article about ROTS getting PG-13 rating.
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"We're getting a lot of flak from parents, a lot of people saying how can you do this? My children love these movies. Why can you not let them go see it?" Lucas told The Associated Press in a recent interview. "But I have to tell a story. I'm not making these, oddly enough, to be giant, successful blockbusters. I'm making them because I'm telling a story, and I have to tell the story I intended."
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SO does GL keep changing his mind about what he is trying to do each time he make these movies? Just glad his attitude is in the right place this time.

[DarkArtist]

I don't think Lucas set out to write a multi billon dollar blockbuster when he penned A New Hope, i think he wanted to tell a story that turned into a blockbuster far beyond anything anyone could have imagined. Now as he completes his masterpiece, he is committed to putting everything together to tell the story the way he envisioned it almost 30 years ago. :)

[bobafrett]

I thought George said that the films were for the "kids", if that's so, then why make this last one so gruesome? I mean, I'll love every minute of the slaughter, but a 5 year old "kid", might not be able to handle it.

[sevboot]

Well, I honestly think George just kinda does what he wants as he goes along and tries to BS his way around things when people call him on it.
You can't tell me he always intended fo Luke and Leia to be twins. He just thought it up when he was doing ROTJ and thought it helped wrap things up.
But it makes for some really icky moments in ANH and ESB. Ben was supposed to be around seventy, but George wanted to start the story off with Anakin being so young that it did not make sense once you go through the natural progression of time. The only way to get around it would have been to have another, older actor play Anakin(and Padme for that mater) and really do up Ewan in the old people makeup. The Prequels should probably have started with Obi-wan around 40 and Anakin around 20. You would then go ahead about seven years to the second movie(with another older actor) and then go ahead another four for the last movie. This would put Anakin around 31-32 and Ben aound 52.

[scruffziller]

That is my point exactly, Sevbot.

Lucas said he was aiming EPS 1 at kids. ANd thus the movie left some things to be desired. I can't really remember if he ever mentioned that he defended the notion of having a story to tell with EPS 1 and 2? I wonder what is his root motivation in all of this. Money? Because it seems that by pleasing the fans this time around can rake in the cash even more so than if he stood by the formula of EPS 1.

[stillakid]

I don't think Lucas set out to write a multi billon dollar blockbuster when he penned A New Hope, i think he wanted to tell a story that turned into a blockbuster far beyond anything anyone could have imagined. Now as he completes his masterpiece, he is committed to putting everything together to tell the story the way he envisioned it almost 30 years ago. :)

Your first sentence is correct. But then the paragraph takes a turn for the worse after that. Lucas categorically did NOT have this "masterpiece" thought out from the beginning save for the barest of concepts. Even ANH, ESB, and ROTJ were really penned by actual screenwriters who knew (and know) how to write a story that makes sense and doesn't contradict itself. Had George actually been "committed" to putting it all together the way it should have been, we'd all be here talking about all our favorite moments instead of wondering how and why it has all gone so terribly awry. He f'd up. He knows it but hides behind the "it's my story to tell" line of defense.

ANH, ESB, and ROTJ were written and made to be plain ol' good stories. Arguably, the whole "toy commerical" thing started to make its presence felt with ROTJ, but that film is still good and solid.

Fast forward 20 years and we see a new Lucas intent on proving to the DGA, WGA, and IATSE that he doesn't need anybody else to make his movies. So he sets out to write them himself and churns out a piece of crap named TPM and defends it by saying that he wrote it for "kids" (suggesting that adults will never like it because he didn't make if for them). Ooookay.

So then we get AOTC, in which he amazingly enough hires and credits a second writer after the critical lambasting he has gotten from fans and critics alike. Coincidence? I don't think so. AOTC is a little better, but still is basically fluff...empty calories. It may taste good for a while but there's nothing underneath that's good for you. And still a solid and safe PG.

AOTC is also criticized heavily by fans who are on to his sleight of hand distraction tricks that consistently fool legions of gullible fanboys. In response, we are now presented with Return of the Sith and a PG-13 rating. Um, what happened to the "these are for kids" line of malarky? Why lead these toddlers on with "lovable" Jar Jar and fart jokes only to shut them out of the third act with a "dark tale" too scary to show anyone under 13?

I'm thinking Lucas should run for President. He's got the spin thing down and he obviously can trick a lot of people. That's all it takes to be a politician or a successful filmmaker anymore I guess. :ermm:

[Mad Slanted Powers]

Any kid who is only five years old now wasn't even born when Episode I was released, so I don't see why people would be complaining that the kids won't be able to see them. Anyone who has followed the series should be old enough by now to handle Episode III. Thus, it wouldn't be so much of a contradiction to say Episode I was for kids. Those kids are growing up, so they are a little bit older when Episode II is released, and it is a bit darker. Now it is six years after Episode I. Many of those kids are 13 or older now, and most are not much younger.

[Slicker]

I have always read that Lucas made the trilogy to tell a story and nothing else. I'm sure he was as surprised if not more so that they actually made money. I don't even think he could've made all 3 parts if ANH hadn't been the big hit that it was.

[tagmac]

Reminds me of when Batman Returns came out, and all these parent groups complained that the movie was too scary for their kid - never mind that it was rated PG-13, so what were these idiots taking their kids to see it anyway?! And a big part of their complaint was that they were "deceived" into thinking it was a kid-friendly movie because of the McDonalds promotion at the time. I guess they forgot what PG-13 meant! Kudos to Lucas for doing it his way, and giving us the dark movie we've been waiting for.

[stillakid]

Any kid who is only five years old now wasn't even born when Episode I was released, so I don't see why people would be complaining that the kids won't be able to see them. Anyone who has followed the series should be old enough by now to handle Episode III. Thus, it wouldn't be so much of a contradiction to say Episode I was for kids. Those kids are growing up, so they are a little bit older when Episode II is released, and it is a bit darker. Now it is six years after Episode I. Many of those kids are 13 or older now, and most are not much younger.

My boy was born in 1995 and saw TPM when it came out. He is now 10 and while he will probably be okay, on occasion, some "dramatic" elements of film still freak him out. Which is why the PG-13 was added in the first place, thanks to Temple of Doom. So while some of the kids who "grew up" with TPM are old enough, certainly not the core audience that Lucas was placating with fart jokes and the clown with goofy ears. Those kids are overwhelmingly still under-aged.

Look, what Lucas has been doing with the Prequels is pretty obvious. He sat down and concocted TPM based on what he thought his son Jett would get a kick out of. After getting hammered by critics and the more caring fans, he reluctantly hired on a co-writer, if nothing else but to placate the cries for him to get help in the writing process. AOTC still suffered from too much Lucas involvement, but arguably it was less toddler-centered than TPM. It too got hammered by the critics and wiser fans so enter ROTS where Lucas just decides to say "F**k it" and throws up every gratuitous piece of eye candy possible up on the screen, ratings be damned. I wager the only thing he refused to put in was a shot of Anakin and Padme screw*** lest the Religious Right protest a Star Wars film (never mind that violence is A-Okay with that crowd :rolleyes: ). With ROTS, he's obviously trying to A) please the uber-fanboys with gratuitous sequences of "Kick-Arse" violence and B) wow the audience with enough visual stimulation to take their mind off of the actual story.

Look, I'm not saying that any one of those approaches is inherently bad, but I would have preferred a little bit of continuity from him. Either make the whole thing a kiddie-flick with Gungans dancing and flipping around or drive these three episodes into the ground with PG-13 style sequences. At the moment though, he's all over the map. :crazed:

[Darth Kirk]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm....... since when did the process of creation have rules and processes that must be adhered to by a set standard set of rules.. George's intentions for Episodes 1,2 3 were jotted down as a back story for the OT in the mid 70's-

http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=4&cat=0800&id=2005051521360001204411

You know it is interesting how people have asserted themselves as all knowing Lucas-insiders and are calling him on things that they are not 100% aware of.. NO ONE HERE knows exactly what process Lucas takes for his efforts to creating a story.. Why his intentions were to hire new writers and directors for all of these films can only be guessed at, it ain't fact until you have something that can prove your point of view, thus a reference would be nice in my opinion.. It just seems pointless to go around spewing half-facts and basing them as concrete facts.. And the logic behind creating things bewilders me Stilla..So if someone creates something in an orderly, proper manner than it is inherantly better than something that may have been created out of chaos, differing attitudes, varying approaches, bipolar mood swings?? Niet (no in russian), to thee I say Stillakid..

[stillakid]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm....... since when did the process of creation have rules and processes that must be adhered to by a set standard set of rules..
Well, ever since story telling began, I'd wager. While there is certainly no requirement for a story to adhere to the wildly popular 3-act structure, for instance, the vast majority of stories do. Why? Because it works. Even Jazz, which has the reputation for going against the grain of "standard" musical form, conforms to a certain pattern within itself.

More to the point of Star Wars, the process of creation of this specific saga was established with ANH back in 1975. Lucas had the hope and intention of expanding the story out to at least 6 and perhaps 9, depending upon who you believe. Had Lucas established Star Wars as something more akin to A Hard Day's Night, then it follows that every Star Wars film afterwards would be required to adhere to that set of rules in order for the saga to be a coherent whole. In other words, Lucas established the rules himself and he is now choosing to break them halfway through the saga. While he certainly has the right to do so because it's his money, it doesn't make it "correct" in terms of the creative process.

George's intentions for Episodes 1,2 3 were jotted down as a back story for the OT in the mid 70's-

http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=4&cat=0800&id=2005051521360001204411
Right, jotted down. Have you, by chance, ever read any of the early drafts of Star Wars before Willard Huyck and Gloria Katz were asked to come and polish it up? A disasterous mess full of those notes you're referring to.

You know it is interesting how people have asserted themselves as all knowing Lucas-insiders and are calling him on things that they are not 100% aware of.. NO ONE HERE knows exactly what process Lucas takes for his efforts to creating a story.. Why his intentions were to hire new writers and directors for all of these films can only be guessed at,
Actually no, you're 100% wrong...again. Lucas himself has explained several times why he hired Kerschner and Marquand and why he has chosen to direct the Prequels himself. Perhaps you ought to do a little more research before mouthing off about commonly known information. :rolleyes:

it ain't fact until you have something that can prove your point of view, thus a reference would be nice in my opinion..,
Look it up. It's not hard to find...in my opinion. :crazed:


It just seems pointless to go around spewing half-facts and basing them as concrete facts..
I agree. That would be wrong. Too bad you're the only one doing that here. Wanna fight about that statement? Then do me a favor and go do your research before jumping into this again. I don't have time to waste educating youngsters about general knowledge.

And the logic behind creating things bewilders me Stilla..So if someone creates something in an orderly, proper manner than it is inherantly better than something that may have been created out of chaos, differing attitudes, varying approaches, bipolar mood swings??
Not necessarily. But as stated, Lucas didn't establish this saga with this "chaos" that you are trying to link it to. Although I'll admit, I don't really have a clue what you're getting at. Are you suggesting that Star Wars is akin to Abstract Impressionists like Jackson Pollock or Surrealists like Dali? I'm sure that Lucas would like to think that he's off the beaten path in that way, but too bad...Star Wars has been about as "normal" a story as they come. But certainly not without intention. The infamous Joseph Campbell described the common archetypes and myths that Lucas and friends infused into the original trilogy. I'm sure that he's rolling in his grave right now looking down at how Lucas has trashed the foundation of the saga.

Niet (no in russian), to thee I say Stillakid..
And to thee, Darth Kirk, I say "Nyet." Had you done any research at all, you would've spelled that correctly and wouldn't have had to define it for us. "Niet" means "rivet" in German.

[Darth Kirk]

Stilla I have done research and I do not believe its fair for you conclude that I had not.. I am going to try and explain my point of view. I will say that if you make an assertion, you should back it up with something that people can reference to while they read your mostly constant disdain for Lucas; a link to the information you are referring to would be cool..

'More to the point of Star Wars, the process of creation of this specific saga was established with ANH back in 1975. Lucas had the hope and intention of expanding the story out to at least 6 and perhaps 9, depending upon who you believe. Had Lucas established Star Wars as something more akin to A Hard Day's Night, then it follows that every Star Wars film afterwards would be required to adhere to that set of rules in order for the saga to be a coherent whole. In other words, Lucas established the rules himself and he is now choosing to break them halfway through the saga. While he certainly has the right to do so because it's his money, it doesn't make it "correct" in terms of the creative process.'

You are completely WRONG here, the way in which one creates a story isn't through any means that must be adhered to in order for it to be correct.. It is a personal experience with differing approaches. Just because you don't seem to agree with it, doesn't make it wrong, makes it different..

'I agree. That would be wrong. Too bad you're the only one doing that here. Wanna fight about that statement? Then do me a favor and go do your research before jumping into this again. I don't have time to waste educating youngsters about general knowledge.'

Please tell me how I have gone ahead and spewed out half facts.. If anything, you are here on this forum, asserting ideas without any references and are making statements about story creation that are completely opinionated.. I by the way ain't no youngster so please stop trying to be smart or funny, cuz u aint neither..

'Not necessarily. But as stated, Lucas didn't establish this saga with this "chaos" that you are trying to link it to. Although I'll admit, I don't really have a clue what you're getting at. Are you suggesting that Star Wars is akin to Abstract Impressionists like Jackson Pollock or Surrealists like Dali? I'm sure that Lucas would like to think that he's off the beaten path in that way, but too bad...Star Wars has been about as "normal" a story as they come. But certainly not without intention. The infamous Joseph Campbell described the common archetypes and myths that Lucas and friends infused into the original trilogy. I'm sure that he's rolling in his grave right now looking down at how Lucas has trashed the foundation of the saga.'

What I am referring to here is that you seem to think that writing is done in a manner that has to have stringent methodoligies, I do not think this is true.. Creativity is not achieved by some stringent apect of writing, and if it is, please tell me where this supposed list exists, cuz I am sure it doesn't.. AND AGAIN, a matter of Campbell rolling in his grave is a matter of opinion.. I think that the archetypes borrowed in the Star wars mythology is amazing..

'And to thee, Darth Kirk, I say "Nyet." Had you done any research at all, you would've spelled that correctly and wouldn't have had to define it for us.'

That was a spelling error..

[stillakid]

Stilla I have done research and I do not believe its fair for you conclude that I had not.. I am going to try and explain my point of view. I will say that if you make an assertion, you should back it up with something that people can reference to while they read your mostly constant disdain for Lucas; a link to the information you are referring to would be cool..
Okay. The information regarding how and why Lucas chose his directors can be found, amongst other places, in the most recent documentary provided with the last round of Star Wars updates. A trimmed down version of this documentary was shown on Extra this weekend.



You are completely WRONG here, the way in which one creates a story isn't through any means that must be adhered to in order for it to be correct.. It is a personal experience with differing approaches. Just because you don't seem to agree with it, doesn't make it wrong, makes it different..
Hardly. Creation in a vacuum is one thing. But Lucas established a very specific story with specific themes and specific continuity. Altering said established conventions mid-way through the process "just because it's art" doesn't only make it "different," it makes it categorically wrong. For instance, the inclusion of the pseudo-Shakespearian cheeseball dialogue into the saga (AOTC) was entirely out of place relative to the style of speech established in the OT films. There is no adequate justification for such an inclusion.



Please tell me how I have gone ahead and spewed out half facts..
You have chosen to attack me specifically rather than engage in a dialogue concerning specifics that I may have mentioned. The "references" you seek are probably in front of you onscreen, in the screenplays, and in other reference materials. I assume that anyone choosing to engage in a dialogue concerning said topic wouldn't need his hand to be held as we run off to cite exactly where a character said or did something.






What I am referring to here is that you seem to think that writing is done in a manner that has to have stringent methodoligies, I do not think this is true..
It is true, relative to that which has been established. That's what you're refusing to understand. Had Lucas constructed Episode IV in the comedic manner like Ghostbusters, then all other episodes that followed would be required to follow suit. As in the dialogue example I gave above, altering the style or continuity mid-stream isn't considered good form. He can do it, but it doesn't make it correct.

However you seem to be advocating a free-for-all in which there are absolutely no rules to follow, no continuity to adhere to all in the name of artistic freedom. With that kind of philosophy, there is no reason why ESB couldn't have been done in claymation and ROTJ in a slideshow format. If you argue that point even a little bit, you've automatically conceded the argument.

Creativity is not achieved by some stringent apect of writing, and if it is, please tell me where this supposed list exists, cuz I am sure it doesn't..
See claymation comment above then get back to me...

AND AGAIN, a matter of Campbell rolling in his grave is a matter of opinion.. I think that the archetypes borrowed in the Star wars mythology is amazing
Yes, the archetypes are amazing and the way the myths were carefully weaved into the fabric of those original 6 hours was done with skilled hands (Huyck, Katz, Kasdan). Jump to the Prequels wherein eye-candy is the major thrust while story and character are left to fight for themselves.



That was a spelling error..
Yeah, I noticed and I corrected it for you. The question is, did you know before I posted or after? Or were you just exercising your creative license because there are no rules to follow in regard to writing? Hmm? :rolleyes:

[Darth Kirk]

First of all, I was not attacking you I was merely stating that to make comments without actual references, makes ones own comments more subjective rather than objective.

Yeah, I noticed and I corrected it for you. The question is, did you know before I posted or after? Or were you just exercising your creative license because there are no rules to follow in regard to writing? Hmm?

Your sarcasm is a lot of fun, but, it was a spelling error and spelling has nothing to do with creativity, if you had wished to pay attention I said that the creative process of writing isn't bound by any specific methodology, I was not referring to the grammatical conventions of the English language. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[stillakid]

Your sarcasm is a lot of fun,
Thanks. :) That's what this hobby is for.

but, it was a spelling error and spelling has nothing to do with creativity, if you had wished to pay attention I said that the creative process of writing isn't bound by any specific methodology, I was not referring to the grammatical conventions of the English language. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Tell that to ee cummings.

Point being, you're not putting any limits on the creative process as far as I can tell. You're giving every "artist" a blank check to do whatever comes to mind no matter what conventions they themselves have established in prior connected work. I see you ignored the ESB/Claymation situation. Are you agreeing that that would be silly or will you support your own argument and suggest that it would have been fine and dandy for George to follow episode IV up with an animated feature? :confused:

[Mad Slanted Powers]

Here's something from the latest issue of Entertainment Weekly:

By Lucas' own calculation, 60 percent of the prequel plot he dreamed up decades earlier takes place in Sith. The remaining 40 percent he split evenly between Menace and Clones, meaning each film contained a lot of...filler. Or, in Lucas parlance, "jazz riffs...things that I enjoy...just doodle around a lot"—mostly in the form of blending live action and animation to create exotic worlds and emotionally resonant characters. You know, like Jar Jar: "That's the whole point to me. Making it the way I want it to be. That's what it comes down to," he says. "Somebody's got to be happy out of all this. It might as well be me."

I don't see the prequels as being all that different from the original trilogy. Lucas is always using repeating themes. As I've said before, the structure of Episode I is quite similar to Episode IV. It is very linear as we follow the characters, but with an ending similar to Episode VI. Episode II is similar to Episode V, in that we have the main characters split and go into two different directions.

If the tone or style is different from movie to movie, I think it is out of necessity to tell the story as he sees fit. Episode I is more whimsical and kid friendly, but helps to emphasize the change in Anakin later. Consider Lord of the Rings. The first few chapters of that book seem more like The Hobbit Part II rather than the dark journey it becomes for the Fellowship.

[bobafrett]

I have heard that there are no Ewoks in ROTS, that alone makes me happy!

[xboywonder]

bobafrett!!

I agree

[bigbarada]

bobafrett!!

I agree

Bah! Ewoks could kick Clonetrooper tail six ways from Sunday! That what the Jedi really needed to stop the Separatists: fuzzy Teddy-bears with pointy sticks!
:D

[2-1B]

And sling shots. Don't forget slingshots, bigB. :D

[stillakid]

And sling shots. Don't forget slingshots, bigB. :D


...And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need. And this remote control. The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need. And these matches. The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control and the paddle ball. And this lamp. The ashtray, this paddle game and the remote control and the lamp and that's all I need. And that's all I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one - I need this! The paddle game, and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches, for sure. And this! And that's all I need. The ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, this magazine and the chair.

:p

[VaderhitsJarjar]

AM TIRD OF ALL THESE SPELING ERURS. mADE MY MOUTH HURT!!

THIS MOVIES WAS MADE FOR US AND jORGE DIDNT THINK MUCH DARN I FOUND HAM - i WULD RATHER MAKE SANDWITCH WITH HAM YET FATHER BILLY SAT WITH A CANE AND DRANK MILK FROM THE FEATHER SWINGS IN THE DARK.



oHH pAPA!

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