Sidious/Palpatine

[Elliejabbapop]

I'm starting to get a little annoyed with people that keep talking about Sidious and Palpatine as if they were two different people:bored: . For Christssake, isn't it obvious they're the same person??? They're even played by the same actor. That is unless Sidious is Palpatine's twin lol

[Jay86]

Yeah I dont get that either. By saying that Palpatine and Sidious are two different people theyre making the whole plot a lot more complicated than it is, not to mention making the whole thing a lot more confusing than it should be......and its not even really complicated or confusing at all, its all very simple and hell, they basically smack you in the face with all the proof in the movies.

Summarized Plot (of Sidious/Palpatine)
- Sith Master disguises himself as a Senator
- Sith Master proceeds to brainwash people and manipulate them into doing what he wants
- Sith Master finally has control of all the right people and rids the galaxy of those he doesnt want, declares himself as "Emperor", and baddaboom-baddabing, thats all there is to it.

Not to mention all of what is shown in the movies (heres the common sense part, which should be all one needs to figure it out):

- Sidious (or the little bit you can see of him) and Palpatine LOOK similar and talk similar, correct?
- Emperor PALPATINE...coincidence he looks (dresses) like Sidious? Perhaps they have the same stylist? Hmmm.....
- At the end of Episode 1, Yoda says "Always a master and an apprentice there are, no more, no less", Mace Windu replies "But which was destroyed, the master, or the apprentice?".....then the camera flashes to Palpatines face, which looks to be like him plotting his next move. Therefore, talk of the Sith + flashing to Palpatines face.....uh yeah. Figure that one out :)
- In Episode 2, Palpatine is seen giving Anakin advice and praise, telling him he is better than the other Jedi. And then Anakin tells Obi-Wan he thinks Palpatine is a "good man". This is the proof of Anakin being lured into Palpatines/Sidious' grasp.
- In Episode 2 Dooku basically tells Obi-Wan whats going on......only its too bad Obi-Wan didnt believe him....if only Obi-Wan knew :ermm:

To say that Palpatine isnt Sidious or he's some clone of Sidious (and yes, I've heard someone try and convince others of that) is absurd as well....that would mean that Palpatines going to be killed and Sidious is going to take over....and change his name to Palpatine? I think not. Ok, so switch that around. If Sidious is killed, then in theory, the Sith will be no more, unless Palpatine is......:eek: .....a Sith master in disguise as well!!!!????. Well, we all know that cant be, "Always a master and an apprentice there are, no more, no less". And if Dooku is Sidious's apprentice, then there you go, the master and apprentice. No more, no less. Well yeah, thats how it is.....so no matter what, and no matter what you believe, the whole thing ends with Palpatine being a Sith Master in disguise taking control of his Empire, etc etc etc. And for anyone who owns the Star Wars Encyclopedia....just look up Emperor Palpatine...the whole story of his life is told in there....everything from him being a former Senator to how he became Emperor. All in all, its pretty simple.....but I still dont know how such a simple thing ever became so complicated :crazed: :confused:

[Elliejabbapop]

Absolutely right!!!:D Also because in Ep II Dooku takes the Death Star plans to Sidious.... it has to be Palpatine!:)

[Jay86]

Absolutely right!!!:D Also because in Ep II Dooku takes the Death Star plans to Sidious.... it has to be Palpatine!:)
Heh, I forgot that one!!! And I remembered last night after I made that post that in Episode 2 Palpatines sitting in his "Emperors chair". Thats even more proof that they're the same guy....come to think of it, theres so much proof I cant keep track of it all :D

[Elliejabbapop]

Exciting anyway:D :D May 19th is still too far:dis:

[1st Prime]

Another reason is John Williams' score to The "Emperor's theme" from ROTJ has been used when we see Sidious on the screen.

[tagmac]

Just look at the way Palpy holds his hands in a distinct position in the scene where he's talking to Anakin....same position you see Sidious and The Emperor holding them when they are on screen.

[ew2seal]

All of you guys are rite. I think the whole thing will come to circle in EP3. It already came out in EP2, when Dooku told Obi-Won that the sith had control of the senate. I think the people who are spreading the rumor, that they are 2 different people, are either ignorant and can't get a clue or it was lucas's people spreading to try to throw us all off the plot trail a little. Either way they are the same person and the jedi will know for sure in EP3 when Palpatine comes after them with the clones. The whole prequel plot is showing how Palpatine came to power anyway. It is pretty basic, HE PLAYED EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!. TO COME TO POWER!!!!!!! My question is how did he hide his force abilities from the Jedi? And How did the whole Sith thing get passed to him? If you read any of the books and things, when the sith war ended. and there only being a master and apprentice. Anyway you all understand.

[Jay86]

All of you guys are rite. I think the whole thing will come to circle in EP3. It already came out in EP2, when Dooku told Obi-Won that the sith had control of the senate. I think the people who are spreading the rumor, that they are 2 different people, are either ignorant and can't get a clue or it was lucas's people spreading to try to throw us all off the plot trail a little. Either way they are the same person and the jedi will know for sure in EP3 when Palpatine comes after them with the clones. The whole prequel plot is showing how Palpatine came to power anyway. It is pretty basic, HE PLAYED EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!. TO COME TO POWER!!!!!!! My question is how did he hide his force abilities from the Jedi? And How did the whole Sith thing get passed to him? If you read any of the books and things, when the sith war ended. and there only being a master and apprentice. Anyway you all understand.
Eh, I dont think the folks at Lucasfilm would want to throw anybody off. I think its more of an issue of people trying to make something more complicated out of something that really is quite simple. And I too am not quite sure how Palpatine became a Sith (I dont follow the Expanded Universe stuff, but thats another story). But I definitely cant wait for Episode 3. Palpatine will reveal his true identity, and the rest will follow. Only 300 days though :ermm:

[dirtybones]

I heard that Anakin becomes Palpatine's bodyguard in EP3 and that Anakin is the one who kills off Mace after Mace reveils that he knows what Palpatine is up to. Question #1
How has Paplatine been able to hide this from all the Jedi to only have Mace figure it out now and nobody else could?
#2
How come Anakin can't see Palpatine for what is truly is? :frus:

[Darth Bezelbub]

My guess is that their will be 2 Palpatines in Episode III! ;)

[Elliejabbapop]

Give me a break!!! lol lol lol

[Darth Bezelbub]

Give me a break!!! lol lol lol

How is this post debating? This looks more like spam.

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My guess is that there will be 2 Palpatines in Episode III!

This explains why we never see the "transformation" from Senator/Chancellor to Sith Lord.

Because there is no dual identity.

Darth Sidious's eyes have been yellow some time before TPM (this explains why we don't see them, and mirrors the first 2 times we see the Emperor in RotJ. His eyes were hidden. Just like TPM & AotC.)

Palpatine #1 (A.K.A. the original. The high midichlorian force user. Darth Sidious.)

Palpatine # 2 (A.K.A. the clone. The low midichlorian decoy. The Senator Chancellor)

Oh by the way Sidious was born with the name Palpatine (just like Vader & Tyranus were born with real names. Because it doesn't make sense the Sith Lords are born with Sith names.) So then when he cloned himself he name his clone after himself.

Dooku says that...


COUNT DOOKU: The truth. What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of the Dark Lords of the Sith?

COUNT DOOKU: The dark side of the Force has clouded their vision, my friend. Hundreds of Senators are now under the influence of a Sith Lord called Darth Sidious.

So therefore...

Original controls clone that controls the Senate

Sidious ----> Chancellor ----> Senate

Not...

1 and only Palpatine controls Senate

Sidious/dual identity ---> Senate

Pass it on! :)

[Darth Bezelbub]

Summarized Plot (of Sidious/Palpatine)
- Sith Master disguises himself as a Senator

Where is this shown on film? Is this a supposition? Show me where on the DVD where this happened. Thank you.

- Sith Master proceeds to brainwash people and manipulate them into doing what he wants

Maul Yes, Dooku Yes, Nute yes. No one else. In fact we don't even know if he has met Padme, Anakin, Yoda, Mace or Obi-wan face to face. In other words we have never seen the guy in the hood and robe next to the heroes. One can assume, but it hasn't happened so far.

- Sith Master finally has control of all the right people and rids the galaxy of those he doesnt want, declares himself as "Emperor", and baddaboom-baddabing, thats all there is to it.

Nope. Sidious becomes the OT Emperor. There is no indication from the movies that the PT Palpatine becomes the Emperor.

Not to mention all of what is shown in the movies (heres the common sense part, which should be all one needs to figure it out):

Nope. Assuming that the S/C is also the Sith Lord is not looking at the points objectively. Instead doing so is "projecting" ones wants and wishes onto the movies, that is being “subjective.”

- Sidious (or the little bit you can see of him) and Palpatine LOOK similar and talk similar, correct?

So does one clonetrooper # 5645 & 7398 and the next one. What does that mean?

- Emperor PALPATINE...coincidence he looks (dresses) like Sidious? Perhaps they have the same stylist? Hmmm.....

The Emperor is Sidious. Both are Palpatines.

- At the end of Episode 1, Yoda says "Always a master and an apprentice there are, no more, no less", Mace Windu replies "But which was destroyed, the master, or the apprentice?".....then the camera flashes to Palpatines face, which looks to be like him plotting his next move. Therefore, talk of the Sith + flashing to Palpatines face.....uh yeah. Figure that one out :)

That is a shot of Red Herring. For those who don't know what the word is look it up. That scene doesn't prove that the Senator is a Sith Lord.

- In Episode 2, Palpatine is seen giving Anakin advice and praise, telling him he is better than the other Jedi. And then Anakin tells Obi-Wan he thinks Palpatine is a "good man". This is the proof of Anakin being lured into Palpatines/Sidious' grasp.

Buttering up people isn't a sign of malicious intent. Got proof that the Chancellor is Sidious?

- In Episode 2 Dooku basically tells Obi-Wan whats going on......only its too bad Obi-Wan didnt believe him....if only Obi-Wan knew :ermm:

See my post above. Sidious controls his clone who controls the senate. Simple enough! :)

To say that Palpatine isnt Sidious or he's some clone of Sidious (and yes, I've heard someone try and convince others of that) is absurd as well....that would mean that Palpatines going to be killed and Sidious is going to take over....and change his name to Palpatine? I think not. Ok, so switch that around. If Sidious is killed, then in theory, the Sith will be no more, unless Palpatine is......:eek: .....a Sith master in disguise as well!!!!????. Well, we all know that cant be, "Always a master and an apprentice there are, no more, no less". And if Dooku is Sidious's apprentice, then there you go, the master and apprentice. No more, no less. Well yeah, thats how it is.....so no matter what, and no matter what you believe, the whole thing ends with Palpatine being a Sith Master in disguise taking control of his Empire, etc etc etc. And for anyone who owns the Star Wars Encyclopedia....just look up Emperor Palpatine...the whole story of his life is told in there....everything from him being a former Senator to how he became Emperor. All in all, its pretty simple.....but I still dont know how such a simple thing ever became so complicated :crazed: :confused:

No one is saying that Palpatine isn't Sidious. People are saying that Sidious isn't the only Palpatine. Get it?

Maybe Mace kills the clone (from detecting Sid in a secret room next to the Chancellor's office) then this enrages Anakin who kills Mace and this brings Anakin completely to the Dark side. Then Sid (the original Palps) tells Anakin why he did it with Crocodile tears and Anakin has no choice because everyone else has turned their back on him and he just killed a Jedi.

The Encyclopedia is not canon

Toys aren't canon, EU isn't canon, the OS isn't canon, the Visual Dictionary isn't canon, and the Novel's aren't canon.

ONLY THE MOVIES!

ONLY THE MOVIES!!

ONLY THE MOVIES!!!

[mabudonicus]

Man,I'm sure I'll regret this :beard:

Mark this post ;)

Sidious/Palpatine/Syfo Dias all the SAME GUY.... unless you want to believe that there is some ridiculous chicanery going on, it's the only thing that really makes sense.....

if the "rumour" is true, Palpatine makes the transition by faking his own kidnapping, allowing him to leave the senate and "become" sidious without arousing any more suspicion than he seems to have already.

I hate the EU and haven't read anything since "heir to the empire" (which was why I decided that the EU should be called the FU for "fuller universe") but based on the movie, unless all the foreshadowing is just there to mislead, there is no other logical conclusion than to believe that Syfo Dias "died" (actually the most brilliant "jedi mind trick" ever, convincing the whole order that he passed away mysteriously) shortly after secretly ordering the Clone Army....
His new , civilian, "No, I'm just a guy" identity (no doubt set up by the SITH relocation program ;)) is a humble senator from Naboo, which allows him to walk the "corridors of poower" on corscuciente (or whatever it's called) and remain close to the Jedi, who's downfall he was plotting since before his "death".... inside information is the best kind, after all, especially when no-one knows you have it.....

All this I gained solely from the films, using my brain to come up with this conclusion

If there are any more than 1 Palpatines EIII will be goofy and contrived, which I sincerely hope is not the case......

one palpatine, working diligently to maintain his dual/secret identities= pretty crafty story, with plenty of hints dropped so far

2 palpatines, one clone and one not clone, plus another separate guy named "Syfo Dias"= No intrigue, no genius, there never was a connection, all the foreshadowing ( eg "we'll be watching you with interest"- if that guy was just a politician, then that seemingly telling line was just a "feel good", wise-politicain-being-august-to-gifted-youngster-style piece of throwaway dialogue)
was not foreshadowing at all and was simply meant to confuse the audience???

I dunno, the latter just doesn't hold any water IMO

[Elliejabbapop]

How is this post debating? This looks more like spam.

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My guess is that there will be 2 Palpatines in Episode III!

This explains why we never see the "transformation" from Senator/Chancellor to Sith Lord.

Because there is no dual identity.

Darth Sidious's eyes have been yellow some time before TPM (this explains why we don't see them, and mirrors the first 2 times we see the Emperor in RotJ. His eyes were hidden. Just like TPM & AotC.)

Palpatine #1 (A.K.A. the original. The high midichlorian force user. Darth Sidious.)

Palpatine # 2 (A.K.A. the clone. The low midichlorian decoy. The Senator Chancellor)

Oh by the way Sidious was born with the name Palpatine (just like Vader & Tyranus were born with real names. Because it doesn't make sense the Sith Lords are born with Sith names.) So then when he cloned himself he name his clone after himself.

Dooku says that...


COUNT DOOKU: The truth. What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of the Dark Lords of the Sith?

COUNT DOOKU: The dark side of the Force has clouded their vision, my friend. Hundreds of Senators are now under the influence of a Sith Lord called Darth Sidious.

So therefore...

Original controls clone that controls the Senate

Sidious ----> Chancellor ----> Senate

Not...

1 and only Palpatine controls Senate

Sidious/dual identity ---> Senate

Pass it on! :)You have a really wide imagination:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ridiculous theory

[darthzirock]

Sidious/Palpatine/Syfo Dias all the SAME GUY.... unless you want to believe that there is some ridiculous chicanery going on, it's the only thing that really makes sense...

You had me up until you included Syfo Dias. Here's the problem with that: Palpatine was already a senator, well-established as a politician, at the time of TPM. Syfo Dias was still alive at the time of TPM. Count Dooku was still in the Jedi Order at the time of TPM. With Darth Maul killed during the events of TPM, and the situation in the Senate forcing Dooku to quit the Jedi because he felt the Senate was corrupt and the Jedi were betraying themselves by serving the corrupt government, here's how I think events happened:

1.) Dooku leaves the Jedi Order.

2.) Dooku is approached by Palpatine/Sidious. Seduced by the power of the Dark Side, Dooku becomes Darth Tyranus.

3.) Palpatine Sidious comands Dooku to kill Master Syfo Dias and assume his identity.

4.) Posing as Syfo Dias, Dooku consults the Kaminoans about creating a Clone Army for the Republic.

5.) As himself (Darth Tyranus), he recruits bounty hunter Jango Fett to be the genetic source of the Clone Army.

6.) Under orders from Sidious, Dooku/Tyranus spearheads the Separatist Movement, knowing it will eventually snowball into a war that the Republic will be ill-equiped to fight.

7.) Once the War Act gives Palpatine "Emergency Powers," he can cement his control over the galaxy and the Clone Army.

I believe that Revenge of the Sith will have Palpatine eventually revealing to the Senate that the Jedi commissioned the Clone Army without the knowledge or approval of the Senate. He will manipulate everyone into thinking the Jedi were attempting a power-play of their own, and use his "Emergency Powers" to abolish the Jedi, order their immediate "arrests" (murders at the hands of the genetically altered Clone Troopers), and ultimately declare the Republic imperilled from within, necessitating he assume ultimate control as Emperor.

[Master Plo- Koon]

You had me up until you included Syfo Dias. Here's the problem with that: Palpatine was already a senator, well-established as a politician, at the time of TPM. Syfo Dias was still alive at the time of TPM. Count Dooku was still in the Jedi Order at the time of TPM. With Darth Maul killed during the events of TPM, and the situation in the Senate forcing Dooku to quit the Jedi because he felt the Senate was corrupt and the Jedi were betraying themselves by serving the corrupt government, here's how I think events happened:

1.) Dooku leaves the Jedi Order.

2.) Dooku is approached by Palpatine/Sidious. Seduced by the power of the Dark Side, Dooku becomes Darth Tyranus.

3.) Palpatine Sidious comands Dooku to kill Master Syfo Dias and assume his identity.

4.) Posing as Syfo Dias, Dooku consults the Kaminoans about creating a Clone Army for the Republic.

5.) As himself (Darth Tyranus), he recruits bounty hunter Jango Fett to be the genetic source of the Clone Army.

6.) Under orders from Sidious, Dooku/Tyranus spearheads the Separatist Movement, knowing it will eventually snowball into a war that the Republic will be ill-equiped to fight.

7.) Once the War Act gives Palpatine "Emergency Powers," he can cement his control over the galaxy and the Clone Army.

I believe that Revenge of the Sith will have Palpatine eventually revealing to the Senate that the Jedi commissioned the Clone Army without the knowledge or approval of the Senate. He will manipulate everyone into thinking the Jedi were attempting a power-play of their own, and use his "Emergency Powers" to abolish the Jedi, order their immediate "arrests" (murders at the hands of the genetically altered Clone Troopers), and ultimately declare the Republic imperilled from within, necessitating he assume ultimate control as Emperor.

I believe that to be what will happen in ROTS. I thought there was something that already shot down the whole Clone theory of Palpatine. I have always believed Sidious and Palpatine were the same person, its just Sidious-Palpatine's elaborate sinister and complex plan that he had manipulated everything for years to let the sith finally take control of the galaxy once more.

[Darth Bezelbub]

You have a really wide imagination:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ridiculous theory

debate (http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/debating)

Meaning of DEBATE
Pronunciation: di'beyt

WordNet Dictionary

Definition: [n] a discussion in which reasons are advanced for and against some proposition or proposal; "the argument over foreign aid goes on and on"
[n] the formal presentation of and opposition to a stated proposition (usually followed by a vote)
[v] argue with one another; "We debated the question of abortion"; "John debated Mary"
[v] have an argument about something
[v] discuss the pros and cons of an issue
[v] think about carefully; weigh; "They considered the possibility of a strike"; "Turn the proposal over in your mind"

Now you know what the definition is! ;)

Oh for those who are wondering. The PT Palpatine is never shown using force powers in the TPM or AotC it is because the most logical answer is that he has no powers.

[Mr. JabbaJohnL]

More like, so he doesn't reveal his identity. Man, I can't believe you think that all these clues and hints are just rubbish!

[The 'Xir]

I haven't read any of the post in this thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned it's just my opinion; but George actually can take this issue in either direction, based on his repeating themes approach to these films. I have always mantained that they are indeed one in the same person, and that in and of itself could be the big revelation(only to people who aren't as into the movies like most of us here), just like on the good side Padme has always had dual personalities to disguise herself.
However, I will allow the possibility now, that they could be two different people(one possibly a clone of the other), but once again based on Gerogie's repeating themes I doubt they'd be clones, but actualy twin brothers, just like Luke and Leia were revealed as twins in the OT's 3rd installment, maybe that will be the big revelation in the PT 3rd installment! And if that turns out to be the case, then I'd have to assume they are both traind in the Sith Arts and that one ends up killing the other As the revelation is revealed!
It would be more dramatic if Sidious appears(in Anakins and maybe Ben's presence) and kills Palpatine and then removes his hood to reveal the same face, but seeing as Anakin's growing alleigence is with the Chancelllor, It doesn't seem that he'd be quick to follow this new guy who just killed his mentor.
So maybe Palpatine Kills Sidious and after he pulls back the hood on the dead robed figure crumpled on the ground to reveal his own visage, Palpatine explains to Anakin, That Sidious was his twin brother, that he needed him to help get things done in the senate, thwart the sepratists attack and undermine the helplessly blind and inactive Jedi, in order to "fix" things in the republic, now his new(imperial) order! However, his brother was getting to out of control and power hungry and made to many mistakes(like the Sifo Dyas incident, and associating with incopetent aliens like the Neimodians) inturn he needed to be delt with. Of course being confused by the events around him and blinded himself Anakin submits to this line of thinking! Man that Palpatine is good(at being evil :evil: )
Or it could play like Sidious is revealed as Palpatines twin brother and Palpatine has Anakin kill him for the same reaosns above! That is the one truely evil thing about Palpatine, is that he schemes and manipulates all these events without actually killing anyone himself! Well these are just some fun scenaios, but I'm still going with the just one person theory! :classic: