The people that actually like AOTC thread.

[Grif]

I have heard a lot of negative things from many people about the prequels thus far. I admit that Episode 1 wasn't that great, but Episode 2 is one of my favorites. And dare I say only second behind ESB. :eek: I thought it had a pretty good story that did fill in a few gaps. Sure there were some rough edges but all movies have some of those. The final battle was awesome to. So I was just seeing if anyone else agreed. Feel free to voice your opinion by saying that it rocked or by saying that I am a "Lucas sheep" :rolleyes: for liking the movie.

[Kidhuman]

I am KH and I like AOTC. I thought it was a really good movie. Lots of action and it is setting up EPIII realy well IMO. Sure the movie had some bad points, but what movie doesnt.

[stillakid]

but what movie doesnt.


"Witness"
"Citizen Kane"
"Back to the Future"
"Dumbo"
"American Graffiti"
"Batman, the Movie"
"Amadeus"
"The Lion King"
"Raiders of the Lost Ark"
"The Iron Giant"
"The Shawshank Redemption"
"The Professional"
"Toy Story"
"When Harry Met Sally"

Just a few. :D

[Kidhuman]

"Witness" - boring
"Citizen Kane" - ultra boring
"Back to the Future" - Marty inventing Rock and Roll.....please
"Dumbo" - completely animated. Apples and oranges
"American Graffiti" - never seen it
"Batman, the Movie" - dropped in acid and survives?
"Amadeus" - never seen it dont want too
"The Lion King" - see Dumbo
"Raiders of the Lost Ark" - The ghosts at he end from the Ark where over the top
"The Iron Giant" - see Lion King
"The Shawshank Redemption" - honestly, 20 years and no one knew he dug a hole?
"The Professional" - only saw the last 40 minutes of the movie
"Toy Story" - boring
"When Harry Met Sally" - chick flick

[Rocketboy]

I loved AOTC.
Couldn't tell you how many times I've seen it now...

Hell, I couldn't choose a favorite Star Wars movie.
(Yes, that means I even love TPM.)

[Rocketboy]

"Witness"
"Batman, the Movie"
"The Professional"Sorry to stray off topic so early in the thread, but...
I really hope you mean "Batman" from 1989 and not "Batman the Movie" from the lates 60's.

As for "The Professional," the international uncut version (with it's original title - "Leon") is far better than the US cut. Or was that the version you meant?

[dr_evazan22]

Bahhh! Bahh! Or whatever sound a sheep makes.

J/K

I love AOTC. I don't think the love story was really developed it only had a good scene or two. And I'm very unhappy with the way that Dexter Jettster was acted, and for that matter, dreamed up. What, he owns and operates a diner in between galactic adventures with Jedi Knight Obi Wan Kenobi? Maybe Dex is the Indiana Jones of the GFFA.

Getting back on topic... I do love AOTC. I liked seeing Sidious and Palpatine and Dooku orchestrating the entire secessionist movement. I think we were shown some great foreshadowing of Ani's turn. The battle was incredible at the end. The investigation into Padme's assailants was great and brings up many other questions.

[stillakid]

"Witness" - boring
"Citizen Kane" - ultra boring
"Back to the Future" - Marty inventing Rock and Roll.....please
"Dumbo" - completely animated. Apples and oranges
"American Graffiti" - never seen it
"Batman, the Movie" - dropped in acid and survives?
"Amadeus" - never seen it dont want too
"The Lion King" - see Dumbo
"Raiders of the Lost Ark" - The ghosts at he end from the Ark where over the top
"The Iron Giant" - see Lion King
"The Shawshank Redemption" - honestly, 20 years and no one knew he dug a hole?
"The Professional" - only saw the last 40 minutes of the movie
"Toy Story" - boring
"When Harry Met Sally" - chick flick

Witness: nobody said anything about your opinions. The statement was about movies without flaws. As it stands, Witness is one of the best and most solid screenplays and films out there.

Citizen Kane: Same, also technically above par.

Dumbo: What's live action vs animation got to do with anything? For that matter, some 90% of AOTC is animated so Dumbo has more in common with the Prequels than any other film on the list.

American Graffiti: Solid filmmaking from a forward thinking idealist who would later become a lazy entrepreneur.

Batman, the Movie: The 1960s version. Campy and goofy and exactly the way they intended. Perfect in every way.

Amadeus: I really can't say enough about this film. It isn't often that we see all the elements of a film blend so thoroughly and completely that the result is a perfect weave. The way the music intertwines with the visuals to tell the story is absolutely masterful. Without a doubt, Amadeus is one of the best movies ever produced from start to finish.

The Lion King: Again, see my Dumbo comments. Plus, a story is a story no matter what medium it is produced in. How an animated cartoon is disqualified from being compared to a live action film is beyond me. They both tell stories. And again, besides, the vast majority of AOTC is Computer Generated Animation. What's the difference?

Raiders of the Lost Ark: The ghosts were over the top? Uh, okay. Um, did you really see the rest of the movie? The ghosts were part of the whole "spiritual" thing etc etc. The entire story was leading up to this question of what would happen if evil opened the lid. How else would this result be visualized? Or are you just against imagined things in general? And if that's the case, how can any element of Star Wars be worthy of fandom?

The Iron Giant: see Lion King and Dumbo. On top of that, The Iron Giant is even more of a "real" story anyway. Moreso than the Disney talking animal films. Story is story.

The Shawshank Redemption: Honestly, yeah. Why is that implausible given the circumstances of the story?

The Professional: Another awe inspiring film. In fact, the first 10 minutes probably rank in the top 5 best openings ever. It's an action film with true characters and true emotion. This is the kind of film that all action films should aspire to be.

Toy Story: Boring? I can't argue taste with you, but I do question your upbringing if you can't see the value in the story. I'd like to talk with your parents for a few minutes. :D

When Harry Met Sally: Chick Flick or not, it's a story nonetheless and a well written one at that. Toss epithets around all you want, it'll be around a lot longer than any one of the Star Wars Prequels ever will.



The list of flaws in AOTC is long and arduous. Even the most die-hard of Lucas-ites have openly admitted that there is significant room for improvement. I will admit that I found the IMAX version far more enjoyable than the original theatrical cut, but close examination of the story reveals unpleasant problems that the pretty pictures lull the naive into accepting. But then again, we're just supposed to sit back and enjoy it for what it is. No nitpicking. That's a great attitude to have, I think. In fact, I might start doing that with the situation in Iraq tomorrow. Why worry about the sniggly details? They just get in the way. Right?

[2-1B]

Hello there. :)

My cybername is Caesar, I am an alleged sheep, and I love AOTC. I also love walks in the park and staring lewdly at middle aged women.

Save for one scene which I would cut and a few other nips and tucks, I think Clones is a damn cool movie. My favorite of the bunch, to be specific.

stillakid, that's a good list up there, one to spark some discussion, for sure.
Far and away (as in the expression, not the Cruise-Kidman vehicle ;) ), my favorite of the bunch is Leon The Professional followed The Shawshank Redemption.
Back the the Future is awesome but it's far from unflawed.

[Pendo]

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE AOTC, it's just my least favourite Star Wars movie. It has many good points, and to be honest I can't think of many bad points *COUGH* OTT CGI *COUGH* :rolleyes:.

CGI isn't the reason it's my least favourite, it is just missing whatever the OT had, but I don't quite know what that is. I think The Phantom Menace was closer to the OT than AOTC, that's why I like TPM more than AOTC.

In the end it all boils down to people's opinions, you can either like it or not like it. We just need to be respectful of everybody's decisions, even if stillakids are sometimes rediculous :rolleyes:;) only j/k stillakid :p.

PENDO!

[arctangent]

Witness: nobody said anything about your opinions. The statement was about movies without flaws. As it stands, Witness is one of the best and most solid screenplays and films out there.

whether a film is flawless or not depends on the opinion of the viewer. in your view stilla witness is flawless in kh's its boring. there is no great god of filmaking who decrees that certain films are flawless whilst others are crap. isn't kh's opinion as valid as yours?

The Lion King

you are kidding right? didn't elton john write some of the music (or was it phil collins - its hard to tell they are both equally bland)? that's an ENORMOUS flaw ;) !

i go to the cinema to be entertained. atoc entertained me. it had some great action sequences, chases and a pretty good battle at the end which i thoroughly enjoyed (bahhh). as stilla and many others have pointed out it has many flaws but that doesn't stop it being an enjoyable piece of cinema imo. good as it may be, wild horses wouldn't drag me to the cinema to see a film like citizen kane - just not my cup of tea.

[Kidhuman]

My opinion makes those movies flawed. While most of them I like(BTTF, Shawshank) they are flawed in certain ways. Obvious reasons. Sure they are stories, but so is AOTC. and there is no such thing as a perfect movie, because there will always, "ALWAYS" be someone to pick it apart.

[stillakid]

Ah yes, the old "opinion" vs. "fact" debate. While I certainly don't care in the least for La Boheme, primarily because I'm not a fan of opera in any sense, it would be simply wrong for me to describe it as fundamentally flawed because I personally don't care for it. In terms of that medium and genre, I'm sure that it is probably essentially perfect (or close to it...we'd have to talk with an opera expert about that one).

In any case, while one might decide that an element of a film is "exciting" or "boring" doesn't address the technical quality of the project. Some might say the film "HEAT" is "cold (detached)" and overly long, but it would be hard to actually find error within the details or scope of it. Unlike AOTC wherein one can point out numerous shortcomings regarding the story or the effects or acting, there are several films out there (some listed above) which are really really good on nearly every level. As an art form, filmmaking is essentially the only one which has managed to combine nearly every artistic and technical achievement known to man. When all those disparate elements are weaved together seamlessly into an enjoyable tapestry, a fine piece of entertainment (or information, as in the case of The Thin Blue Line) results.

[stillakid]

Hello there. :)

My cybername is Caesar, I am an alleged sheep, and I love AOTC. I also love walks in the park and staring lewdly at middle aged women.




By definition, you are NOT a Lucas sheep. Lucas likes Playmates and the last time I checked, they're not middle aged, unless you're like, 10 or so. :D

[Kidhuman]

BUt by making Heat overly long, it was flawed to many. Same thing with Jackie Brown, cut 30 minutes out of the movie, unneccessary parts making a movie too long is a flaw in itself.

[arctangent]

i actually didn't think heat was overly long. it bugs me that nearly all films seem to be shoehorned into two hours. the film should be as long as it takes to tell the story - return of the king is a case in point. they will add lots of deleted scenes to the four dvd set that were cut from the cinema release. i don't want to see those scenes on dvd, i want to see them in the cinema and if it goes on for four and a half hours then so be it. put a break in the middle and show the whole thing - not a version with over an hour cut.

[lucidebass]

Call me a sheep...I don't care... :D AOTC and TPM were great In fact AOTC is close to being a fav, ESB my all time pick... Are they perfect? No, there were flaws as there were in the OT, but we've got to remember,
we were little (most of us -I was 3 when I saw ANH) impressionable kids when we first saw the OT. So there was incredible magic that stayed with us for a long time...

We didn't care that the stormtrooper got clothelined by the door in ANH (actually that was pretty damn funny)...we didn't care that some of the acting and dialogue was hokey...We were wide eyed with awe about some kid learning about the force and winning against evil....(and Boba Fett was DA BOMB :evil: :sur:heh heh )

But my point is we've all grown up...maybe...and we're analyzing just a biiiiit too much on something that is just entertainment...I can't wait for EPIII and I'll love every minute of it...and watch all the others over and over again because they're still fun to watch!
WORD :)

[stillakid]

Call me a sheep...I don't care... :D AOTC and TPM were great In fact AOTC is close to being a fav, ESB my all time pick... Are they perfect? No, there were flaws as there were in the OT, but we've got to remember,
we were little (most of us -I was 3 when I saw ANH) impressionable kids when we first saw the OT. So there was incredible magic that stayed with us for a long time...

We didn't care that the stormtrooper got clothelined by the door in ANH (actually that was pretty damn funny)...we didn't care that some of the acting and dialogue was hokey...We were wide eyed with awe about some kid learning about the force and winning against evil....(and Boba Fett was DA BOMB :evil: :sur:heh heh )

But my point is we've all grown up...maybe...and we're analyzing just a biiiiit too much on something that is just entertainment...I can't wait for EPIII and I'll love every minute of it...and watch all the others over and over again because they're still fun to watch!
WORD :)

The difference here that you yourself pointed out is that the OT "flaws" were pretty superficial and harmless. The Stormie bonking his head was something that I honestly never noticed for years until someone mentioned it to me despite me having seen the film umpteen times. The other point that this brings up is that as kids we weren't looking for problems, so ergo, most of us as kids most likely never really noticed those superficial errors, like the Stormie or the shot of R5 next to R2 or any of the other superficial continuity errors. True, as kids we never looked for those kinds of things and we weren't looking for story problems either.

Yes, as adults, most of us now possess the criticial thinking skills which enable us to recognize both the superficial continuity errors as well as deeper story issues. But you know what? I can look back at the Original Trilogy with my new adult eyes and still find no significant flaws while I look upon the Prequels with exasperation.

Maybe naive stupid kids today don't see the deeper problems that the Prequels inherently contain. Maybe some adults can't, or don't want to, see the problems either. Great. Wonderful. But that doesn't mean the problems don't exist. It is great that people find enjoyment in so many things and I sincerely am happy that naive stupid kids can watch a new imagining of Star Wars with wide-eyed wonder. But one day they'll grow up too and realize what so many others have figured out already.

With all the horror occurring in the world today, I sincerely do wish I could go back to being a kid again and live in blissful ignorance of the shortcomings of humanity. Analyzing movies is small potatos compared to everything else we have to deal with. Is it too much to ask of storytellers (filmmakers) to take the extra effort to make sure that something as superfulous as a silly movie has its "I"s dotted and its "T"s crossed? :confused:

[2-1B]

By definition, you are NOT a Lucas sheep. Lucas likes Playmates and the last time I checked, they're not middle aged, unless you're like, 10 or so. :D

I dunno . . . Playmates age, too, and they have to be put out to pasture somewhere. ;)

[stillakid]

I dunno . . . Playmates age, too, and they have to be put out to pasture somewhere. ;)

..........[Insert milking joke here]

[Grif]

I just realized that I didn't go into great detail about why I like AOTC. The awesome action, the descent story, no annoying little kids that can't act (except the kid that played Boba), and Yoda kicking but and taking names.

I did think the Anakin/Padme love story thing was awkward. Even more so than Luke and Leia making out. Boba Fett is my favorite character in the SW universe, but I don't think he should have been in the movie. It takes away from the mystery surrounding him and makes the universe seem that much smaller.

In any case, I thought it was a great movie. BAAAAAHHHH.

BTW, stillakid and Caesar, the few years I have been checking out SSG I always thought you guys had interesting points of view and I always enjoyed reading your posts. I have no idea why I put that, but I thought I would say it.

[Turbowars]

I liked AOTC and most of the movie's Stilla posted. The cartoons I could live without.

[Darth Alex]

Count me in...the film has held up to repeated DVD plays and I think all the nonsense bashing Lucas's writing abilities and the worth of the Prequel Triolgy is just modern cynical drivel. Of course, people can like what they like, but Ep2 was a lot of fun, had good character developments, great music, good themes, and classic lines. I'm not glad-handling the film, I just really enjoyed it.
We seem to over rank and classify things in this age we live in. When I list my favorite films, the SW SAGA is what will be posted. Same as LOTR. I enjoy em all, why seperate a great thing. For me, same goes for SW...

[JEDIpartner]

Amen!! This guy loves AOTC and there's no two ways about it!

[Jay86]

Count me in...the film has held up to repeated DVD plays and I think all the nonsense bashing Lucas's writing abilities and the worth of the Prequel Triolgy is just modern cynical drivel. Of course, people can like what they like, but Ep2 was a lot of fun, had good character developments, great music, good themes, and classic lines. I'm not glad-handling the film, I just really enjoyed it.
We seem to over rank and classify things in this age we live in. When I list my favorite films, the SW SAGA is what will be posted. Same as LOTR. I enjoy em all, why seperate a great thing. For me, same goes for SW...
Agreed!!!!! :D

[JEDIpartner]

Honestly, all "flaws" aside... the movies are meant to be fun. For me, they are! Sure, my partner rolls his eyes when I put on one of the prequels but I just snuggle up on the couch and prepare myself for a good two-hours of escapist comic-book fun!

[stillakid]

I think all the nonsense bashing Lucas's writing abilities and the worth of the Prequel Triolgy is just modern cynical drivel. ...


Well, if it makes you feel better to think that then have at it. But I'm here to tell you that I'm not just being "cynical" when discussing the problems with these movies. :rolleyes: I swear, why does everyone have to try to write off reasonable criticism by trying to define it as "cynical" or "adult"? The movies have flaws. Accept it. You and others like you act as if I (and most of the rest of the free world) walked into the theater looking for problems. :rolleyes: Gimme a break.

[Jay86]

Well, if it makes you feel better to think that then have at it. But I'm here to tell you that I'm not just being "cynical" when discussing the problems with these movies. :rolleyes: I swear, why does everyone have to try to write off reasonable criticism by trying to define it as "cynical" or "adult"? The movies have flaws. Accept it. You and others like you act as if I (and most of the rest of the free world) walked into the theater looking for problems. :rolleyes: Gimme a break.

"The movies have flaws. Accept it." Well, some people know the movies have flaws, and they accept it and choose not to talk about those flaws. Some people know the movies have flaws and they choose to accept it yet talk of those flaws rather often. Of course the movies have flaws, the OT did, and most every other movie known to man does. To never have flaws would be the true form of imperfection. Having flaws and not being perfect is to be human, its a basic rule of living. And I'm not directly critisizing any one person on these boards, but I've seen a select few who seem to like to critique the prequels all day long (not literally "all day long", yes thats sarcasm). I for one could point out many a number of things I would love to change about the prequels or things I dont quite like. I for one cant stand the scene in AOTC where C-3PO gets his head knocked off and replaced with a battle droid one. But when I sit back and watch the movies, I realize that if I were 10 years younger (being 8), I would have loved that part of the film. As we grow we find things that were once funny to be corny, and things we never thought to be funny to be hilarious (political humor for one). In the end though, I loved AOTC, and the Phantom Menace as well. Obviously they have flaws, I and many others choose to accept it and "move on", have fun with what is there and enjoy it for what it is (I'm not saying others dont though). If others choose to sit around and make fun of a character from a movie (Jar Jar Binks) then have at it, to each their own. I'll never understand it, I mean hell that movie is 6 years old, which means people have been bashing the character for about 6 years now and I guarantee you that if they go and watch Episode 1 he'll still be there. Dont like it then dont watch it, simple as that. And critiquing something wont change it. All the Jar Jar haters in the world could hold a riot outside Skywalker Ranch and I'm sure George Lucas wouldnt care, because there are people who like Jar Jar, yes amazingly enough there are. I for one dont feel that anyone whos more critical than anyone else walked into a theatre looking for problems. I think its just part of being an adult that we learn to find the flaws, rather than as a kid we just watch and enjoy because we dont know any better or anymore than that. Its one of the negatives of growing up, depending on how you look at it. In the end, Jar Jar Binks might have been annoying, I'm sure not his biggest fan but I learned to love Episode 1 and Episode 2, and certain comments that I read rather often like "Jar Jar ruined the prequels" I find to be hilariously ridiculous, but to each their own. If someone wants to sit behind their computer and preach of their hatred for a movie character of all things, then more power to them. I dunno I just feel theres better things one could be doing than complaining and critiquing things all the time (yes, again, theres sarcasm, I dont mean literally "all the time"). I'm actually surprised I've wasted all this time writing this, usually if someone writes some long paragraph all about their opinions of the prequels and the problems of them I skip over it......Its the way things work, everyones got opinions and they'll speak them. And I'm sure we all know of the famous saying, "Opinions are like (insert term here), everyones got them". Well, in the end thats pretty much all there is to it. The people who love the prequels and put their opinions of the prequels aside and choose not to speak of the things they find wrong of them will probably never understand why some people choose to talk about what they liked/disliked about the prequels, its no big deal really. Just because someones opinion differs from mine doesnt mean I dont like them, I dont have anything against anybody from these boards, I mean they're message boards after all, I'm sure we're all mature to realize that. C'mon, wheres the love people????? lol


(NOTE) I didnt write this post directly for anyone, its just an opinion, not directed at any one person. Read it if you want, skip over it (I really wouldnt blame you, I've skipped my fair share of long and boring looking paragraphs that other people have written), etc etc etc.....

[bigbarada]

Well, here goes: while I don't think this film is even in the same class as ANH or ESB there are still many things that I like about it:

1. the Clone War battle - especially seeing the Clone army in action, add to that some of the coolest vehicle and droid designs in all of Star Wars

2. Yoda's duel - in my mind, this is the true introduction of Yoda as a real character not just a know-it-all Muppet whose only purpose is to advance the plot.

3. Jango and Boba - I was never much of a Fett fan until I saw this movie.

However, there are many specific things that I don't like about this film:

1. the love story - it had all the emotional resonance of a high school drama club production of Romeo and Juliet

2. the Jedi - I must be the only Star Wars fan in existence who is really sick of seeing characters with lightsabers, during the actual Geonosis battle the extras they hired to portray Jedi couldn't have looked more incompetent when it came to fighting prowess. I seemed as if Lucas gathered up all the computer geeks from ILM, put them in Jedi suits and told them to act like martial arts masters.

As far as the prequels go, so far, Ep1 is still my favorite.

As for the idea of "flawless" films: just the fact that movies are made by human beings makes them flawed. While a movie like Citizen Kane might be technically perfect, what good is it if it bores the audience to tears? Film is a method of communication and if the audience is too disinterested to get the message a filmmaker is trying to send, then that filmmaker is just mumbling to himself.

[Anomally]

The movies have flaws. Accept it.

Take your own advice fella. It has been a year since I last visited these forums and this poor fool is still sobbing over the prequels. :p I loved AOTC along with the rest of Star Wars and I'm especially excited for episode three's release. My girlfriends and I will be standing in line first thing opening day just like we did for episode's one and two.

[Jay86]

Well, here goes: while I don't think this film is even in the same class as ANH or ESB....

None of the prequels can be compared to the original three, and anyone who attempts to compare the two trilogies....well thats why there are so many people complaining about things that really (to me and a good number of other people) dont matter...the prequels and the OT are two different sets of films, I wouldnt even say that Star Wars is a one piece "saga", in a sense yes it is when you connect the 'lines' (certain characters that appear in both trilogies) but other than that they are two completely different sets of movies. The storylines are completely different for both, and while I can understand the arguemnets some people make about the prequels and the storylines being "vague", well it makes sense...with the prequels comes a large series of events, the whole Star Wars universe is in turmoil, planets are seperating from the central Republic and the Republic is attempting to move against them and stop them from doing so.....and thats a lot to have to portray in just three movies, so I give Lucas credit for all he's done, you cant put every single little detail into the movies and expect to have the most polished script and whatnot. As for the love scenes, I didnt mind them.....Lucas needed to portray the relationship between Anakin and Padme, and I think it went well. Granted it did seem corny, but it made sense and the point came across that Padme eventually realizes she does like Anakin....point made, credit given.

"As for the idea of "flawless" films: just the fact that movies are made by human beings makes them flawed"

Exactly as I said....which is why I cant understand it sometimes when people (repeatedly) complain about certain things like the "problems" of the prequels. To each their own yes, but there is a time when one should learn to accept things and move on.....

I'm not sure about anyone elses Episode 2 theatre experience, but I think judging by my personal experience, in which the whole theatre I was in, full of dedicated Star Wars lovers much like myself (and yes the WHOLE theatre was literally 99% full of Star Wars fans), stood up and applauded and cheered when the credits started to role......I think that speaks for itself, and I think thats proof enough, for me at least, that Lucas got his message across and gave us a good entertaining movie, one that I know I'll enjoy until I die.

[stillakid]

Take your own advice fella. It has been a year since I last visited these forums and this poor fool is still sobbing over the prequels. :p I loved AOTC along with the rest of Star Wars and I'm especially excited for episode three's release. My girlfriends and I will be standing in line first thing opening day just like we did for episode's one and two.

Oh, I accepted it alright. No problem there. It still appears as though many haven't managed to recognize the problems though. Maybe I didn't use the right terminology. Perhaps a part of me is still sobbing (have to think about that one), but more of me sits in amazement at how anyone could really be excited about Episode III anymore. It's more like waiting for the inevitable pileup at the Indy 500. It's coming. No doubt about it. How bad will it be this time though? :p

[Jay86]

It still appears as though many haven't managed to recognize the problems though.
So....are we all suppose to "see the light" and follow thou in an army like fashion in which we all see the same problems and feel the same way about things? Not everyone thinks alike, perhaps if we all thought the way you did or percieved things the way you do, then we'd all recognize these "problems" that you seem to see. However, since there are people who dont think the same as others and choose not to look for or care for certain problems, obviously not everyone is going to "recognize" any "problems" that might exist. I for one can pick out things from both trilogies that I would consider "problems", actually not even Star Wars, most anything really, but I choose not to take them to heart and dwell on them constantly and view them as a very important issue. I for one dont understand whats so important about such "problems", some should actually be expected and shouldnt be such a surprise as they seem to be, but if others choose to dwell and constantly bring up these problems in the form of a discussion then so be it, there are others however who wont do so and will do differently.......I do understand though where some people are coming from when they refer to such negative or constant dissaproval of the prequels being "drivel", repeated negative talk of most anything can often become as bland as a bad joke told time and time again......then again, constant praise of something can also become redundant and seemingly overdone......though I guess seeing as how we are all individuals and we are all respectively unique we're not all going to have the same sense of humor or point of view and react to things the same way as others, in this case however it seems to be one side or the other.....to each their own though

[JediTricks]

Sure, my partner rolls his eyes when I put on one of the prequels but I just snuggle up on the couch and prepare myself for a good two-hours of escapist comic-book fun!Oh, that is totally GAY! ... ;)

Honestly, all "flaws" aside... the movies are meant to be fun.Unfortunately, I didn't find AOTC much fun at all, less so than TPM even, so that's where my argument really starts out, not being bitter or adult or anything, I wasn't having fun here.



I'll never understand it, I mean hell that movie is 6 years old, which means people have been bashing the character for about 6 years now First off, the film is 5 years old, not 6. Second, do you really think people - both SW fans and the general public - are still bashing Jar Jar after half a decade because it's a trend and a fad? I hear that argument a lot, that 'Jar Jar haters' just feel that way because it's a trend, and I think your comment just disproved that right then and there (not suggesting you were making that 'it's a trend' argument, just that your comment made a perfect cap to kill it).

[Jay86]

First off, the film is 5 years old, not 6. Second, do you really think people - both SW fans and the general public - are still bashing Jar Jar after half a decade because it's a trend and a fad? I hear that argument a lot, that 'Jar Jar haters' just feel that way because it's a trend, and I think your comment just disproved that right then and there (not suggesting you were making that 'it's a trend' argument, just that your comment made a perfect cap to kill it).
First off.....its 5 if you count on your fingers (which is what I did, I was typing quickly) so forgive me for being 1 year off :rolleyes:. And did I say that everyone who bashes Jar Jar Binks does so because its a "trend"? If I said anything in relation to such a topic then I'll assure you that I intended a large amount of sarcasm behind such a comment on my behalf. I do however feel that the opinion of disliking Jar Jar Binks or even the simple consideration of disliking the character somewhat started in the style of a trend. One person mentions their dislike of him, another considers that very opinion to themselves and says "why yes I too disliked Jar Jar Binks", and before you know it you've got a good handful of people running around preaching of their dislike for a movie character, of all things......and I'm not sure how many times I'll end up saying this, its been more than I can count now, but even I myself am not Jar Jar Binks' biggest fan......however, I dont choose to hate or preach of my hate or even blow such an opinion out or proportion, which seems to me what many other people have done, and I simply find that to be amusing, I dont mean that in an offensive way, I just dont understand how some people can take something so unimportant (in my opinion of course) to heart, but again, to each their own, that what it all boils down to.

[JediTricks]

And did I say that everyone who bashes Jar Jar Binks does so because its a "trend"?Jay, you don't need to read everything I wrote, but at least read the part where I said "not suggesting you were making that 'it's a trend' argument". ;)

And I can't forgive you, saying 6 when you mean 5 is an offense punishable by death... geez, don't take it so seriously, I just pointed out that it's been 5 years. :p

[Turbowars]

Oh, that is totally GAY! ... ;)

strange that you can now use this word.

[Jay86]

Jay, you don't need to read everything I wrote, but at least read the part where I said "not suggesting you were making that 'it's a trend' argument". ;)

And I can't forgive you, saying 6 when you mean 5 is an offense punishable by death... geez, don't take it so seriously, I just pointed out that it's been 5 years. :p
I read everything you wrote and understood it, no point in only reading part of something especially when something I said was being quoted. And just because I quoted something you said doesnt necessarily mean that everything else I said (wrote) was directed towards you either.

"First off.....its 5 if you count on your fingers (which is what I did, I was typing quickly) so forgive me for being 1 year off :rolleyes:"

.....there was sarcasm in there....not a lot, but it was there....that would be why I put that face there ;)

[2-1B]

As far as the "problems" go, yes there are problems with the prequels which I just ignore and gloss over for the sake of enjoyment (Threepio in the Factory, for example) but then there are other "problems" which I flat out refuse to accept as a problem. Ohhhhhhhhhhh, for example, let's say Obi-Wan finding Anakin or Obi-Wan and Anakin being such 'good friends.'

I've thought these 2 issues out and I don't find any problems with any of it. I take offense at anybody who tells me that I am just rationalizing these factual problems away or any other such condescending attitudes.

I find a huge problem with how crappy Yoda looks in TPM, how lame Threepio is in that Factory, how goofy it is that Ani built Threepio, the unneccesary use of 2 actors as Ani in the prequels, the overkill of Jar Jar in the Naboo battle considering he's pretty cool the rest of the film, etc. etc. etc. In those cases and a handful of others I just try to ignore what bothers me and have fun with the rest of it.
This might also come into play when I see Episode 3. I won't go into details here out of respect for the Non-Spoiled but some theories about Episode 3 (1 in particular) looks like I might have to suspend my SW disbelief for a few moments. Who knows.

[bigbarada]

None of the prequels can be compared to the original three, and anyone who attempts to compare the two trilogies....well thats why there are so many people complaining about things that really (to me and a good number of other people) dont matter...the prequels and the OT are two different sets of films, I wouldnt even say that Star Wars is a one piece "saga", in a sense yes it is when you connect the 'lines' (certain characters that appear in both trilogies) but other than that they are two completely different sets of movies. The storylines are completely different for both, and while I can understand the arguemnets some people make about the prequels and the storylines being "vague", well it makes sense...with the prequels comes a large series of events, the whole Star Wars universe is in turmoil, planets are seperating from the central Republic and the Republic is attempting to move against them and stop them from doing so.....and thats a lot to have to portray in just three movies, so I give Lucas credit for all he's done, you cant put every single little detail into the movies and expect to have the most polished script and whatnot. As for the love scenes, I didnt mind them.....Lucas needed to portray the relationship between Anakin and Padme, and I think it went well. Granted it did seem corny, but it made sense and the point came across that Padme eventually realizes she does like Anakin....point made, credit given.


I feel the same way, the prequels themselves are in a completely different category. That was inevitable considering the vast improvements in visual effects.

It's like complaining that the N64 game, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, isn't enough like it's predecessor Legend of Zelda for the NES.

Technology and visual effects techniques improve and there is nothing you can do about it. While many people complained about the Ep1 Yoda, technically he was a vast improvement over the OT Yoda. However, people had fallen in love with the flawed puppet, so any changes would be unwelcome no matter how much better the new puppet looked.

The CG work in the prequels is amazing and relatively seamless when you take into account how much work they had to do and how little time they had to do it. Was the CG perfect? Of course not, but most of the CG in LOTR was much worse by comparison but that doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the films.

Jay86, these comments aren't directed at you personally, you just brought up a good point that I wanted to comment on.

And I don't totally despise the prequels. If I didn't really like the films I wouldn't care enough to complain about the faults. The Matrix 2 & 3 were terrible films, but I don't complain about that series because there is nothing about it that interests me.

I do believe the prequels are superior to the OT in a few areas, mainly the more cohesive storyline, superior character & vehicle design and vastly improved special effects.

[JediTricks]

Turbo, so can anybody; a few months ago, I noticed that people hadn't been using "gay" in an disparaging manner for a while and the other uses were being more inhibited, so I asked Steve to remove it from the auto-censor - if the problem occurs again, it'll have to go back. My usage in this thread was a parody on the disparaging usage because what JP was saying was literally gay. Hope that clears it up.



I read everything you wrote and understood it, no point in only reading part of something especially when something I said was being quoted. And just because I quoted something you said doesnt necessarily mean that everything else I said (wrote) was directed towards you either. Oh no, I've gone crosseyed!

:D



but then there are other "problems" which I flat out refuse to accept as a problem. Ohhhhhhhhhhh, for example, let's say Obi-Wan finding Anakin or Obi-Wan and Anakin being such 'good friends.'

I've thought these 2 issues out and I don't find any problems with any of it. I take offense at anybody who tells me that I am just rationalizing these factual problems away or any other such condescending attitudes. Gotcha. Let me ask this though... do you think the presentation of these issues in the PT fits well with the previously-presented OT scenes? And I don't just mean dialogue, I mean the whole presentation - dialogue, acting, inflection, emotional backdrop, even music.


In those cases and a handful of others I just try to ignore what bothers me and have fun with the rest of it. For me, the harder I try to ignore stuff like that, the more it feels forced to me and I end up pulled away from the movie(s). This might work for me with a movie like The Mummy or The Matrix or something (no idea why those 2 and "Aliens" came to mind first), but as part of a saga it is much harder.

[aceguide]

I am a big fan of AOTC. I also like TPM.

Are they a seemless, perfect fit with the OT - absolutely not. Are the a relavent and ectertaining part of the SW saga - absolutely.

I am in the camp of Star Wars Rocks. Just about anything is OK with me. I loved the animated series, I own every version of the OT and am looking forward to the DVD. I do hope that the meddling is kept to a minimum, but I do respect GL for doing what he likes to make it his vision. My one major gripe is the whole Greedo/Han thing - but that is a can-o-worms that I care not open right now...

EPIII is the link from new to old (or old to new depending on how you look at it) and will be the ultimate determiner of how well it works as a whole. But certainly as parts, they are all fun movies with great toys.

[2-1B]

Gotcha. Let me ask this though... do you think the presentation of these issues in the PT fits well with the previously-presented OT scenes? And I don't just mean dialogue, I mean the whole presentation - dialogue, acting, inflection, emotional backdrop, even music.

That's an excellent question, JT. :)

Regarding the Yoda-shoehornedQui-Gon-Obi-Wan-Anakin thing, yes I honestly do feel that it fits very well with the OT scenes. I'll be the first to admit that I grew up assuming that Ben found Anakin and it was as simple as that. By itself, the OT led me to a certain conclusion which was the most concise IMO. YET, the way things played out with these new films, I just think that there was more to the story than what the OT reveals and I think it fits in nicely. Having seen TPM and AOTC, now when I watch ESB it honestly does not feel contradictory to me. It doesn't seem like a break in continuity, just a more detailed history of what was so concisely stated in the OT.

The "good friends" part, I have to admit that it's taken a bit of warming up for me to get there. First of all, it didn't help that Ani was just a kid in TPM and then the next film is a skip ahead in time by a whole decade. You know, if we go back to the previous situation for a second, had George just gone with the "Obi-Wan finds Anakin" thing, then maybe this second topic wouldn't even be an issue. ;) But like I said, I'm fine with Qui-gon's role so I'm going to maintain that there should have been plenty of other opportunities to form this "good friend" feeling. I read all the spoilers before I saw AOTC and I was concerned about it because I knew Obi and Ani would be split up for a good chunk of the film. And of course, when they ARE together, there is plenty of scolding and resentful feelings so that takes up even more time which could be used to show these 2 as a pair of old buddies. I still think it's there, though, just not as much as there could have been had Obi-Wan been around Anakin more in TPM. In some other AOTC threads, I've pulled out what I see as positives in their "good friends" relationship.

And I'd also like to see what Episode 3 has to offer in this regard. Either way, I do think they could have shown more of this by now. Even though I liked TPM, the thought has crossed my mind that AOTC could have made for a decent Episode I with maybe a few more elements thrown in from TPM (similar to what you have opined in the past).

[Kidhuman]

Caesar, to me, being a good friend constitutes alot of things. Good friends is that...friends. Obi as we see him, is a trainer. He needs to be hard on Anakin, which Anakin doesnt like. If Anakin really hated him and despised him, he wouldnt of went after himon Geonosis. He would of left him there to die and not followed oprders. But he risked his own life, and future with the Accademy/Council to go after his "Good Friend."

[2-1B]

No argument there, Kid. :)
A person could argue that Anakin didn't even want to leave for Geonosis so he couldn't care that much about Ben. I disagree because Anakin was trying to follow Mace's orders and that's what Ben would have wanted him to do. :)

[JEDIpartner]

Oh, that is totally GAY! ... ;)

Unfortunately, I didn't find AOTC much fun at all, less so than TPM even, so that's where my argument really starts out, not being bitter or adult or anything, I wasn't having fun here.Yeah... I know. But that's what you love about me... bringing in the views from the "Rainbow Squadron" and all. :D

You know... I think it's all in where your head is with these movies. I don't think there is a matter of right or wrong; good or bad tastes or what have you. One of my friends hated the OT and loves the prequels. He likes the OT a little better now having seen the prequels (odd, I know) but it works for him and I'm not going to deny him that.

[El Chuxter]

Originally Posted by stillakid
The Lion King

you are kidding right? didn't elton john write some of the music (or was it phil collins - its hard to tell they are both equally bland)? that's an ENORMOUS flaw ;) !

Dude, between Live and Elton, is this National "El Chuxter Must Defend The Honor Of Great Musicians" Day? Phil Collins (post-Genesis) is definitely bland, no question there. But Elton's latter-day dullness has tarnished his bad-arse rebel image from his early days. "Candle in the Wind 97" or "Philadelphia Freedom" may suck donkeys, but there is no way most of his early stuff is "bland."

Oh, and, uh, AOTC isn't perfect (the love plot sorta drags), but I still think it rocks!

[JediTricks]

Caesar, I guess that is one of those things where you and I see it vastly differently, and I'll just leave it at that because you don't need to defend that stance if you genuinely believe in it.


Yeah... I know. But that's what you love about me... bringing in the views from the "Rainbow Squadron" and all. :D Uh oh, is this gonna be another one of those crazy theories about Wedge secretly being gay? ;) (sorry, I know it was cheap but it popped into my head and made me chuckle :D)


Oh, and, uh, AOTC isn't perfect... but I still think it rocks! That's only because there's a single guitar riff in the score. ;)

[Kidhuman]

Youi know Caesar, I was thinking about that after I posted. But I tend to agree with you. Obi, would have wanted him to follow orders, but at least he made the effort(no matter the reason)to come get him. It had to be justified,by protecting Padme. But we know he would of gone anyway, if she didnt say she was going.