What does Palpatine have to do with the Death of Shmi?`

[Tycho]

First, I know nothing. The straight facts are she was a prisoner of the Tusken Raiders, she's brutalized and dying when Anakin finds her, but she IS still alive and they have a very brief dialogue before she dies. Anakin is in shock when his anger catches up with him and he leaps back and slaughters every Tusken man, woman, and child in sight. He literally wipes out a tribe.

Are the Tuskens just being themselves by attacking Shmi? The homestead, etc.? Why did they take HER prisoner? Is someone else or some set of intentional circumstances manipulating them?

There are two questions whose answers would resolve this:

1) Why would Palpatine get involved with this? What does he have to gain?

2) How would he go about achieving this? -from so far away?

What do you think?

[Jedi Clint]

Anakin has supposedly had visions of his mother in danger for some time before AOTC takes place and he heads home to check on her. I think the whole Palpatine gets involved thing is bogus. TPM novel had an extra sequence near the beginning where Anakin took care of a wounded Tusken at risk of his own safety. I think Lucas had this plot device conceived even then. For all his good will he is paid back by having his mother murdered by savages. That is a life lesson that is not easily taken as positive. When he is throwing the tantrum we saw in the trailer, he blames himself and Obi Wan for holding him back. If he had only listened to what was inside......if only he had been powerful enough to prevent this......if only Kenobi hadn't kept him from doing just that!!!! It seems unnecessarily contrived to have the ruler of the Republic (or his alter ego) put the hit on the mother of a potential apprentice. I absolutely think that he has his eye on Anakin. If he were able to see Shmi being an impediment to his plans for the boy, then he should also see that Anakin would transfer his dependency on his mother to his sweetheart upon dear old mum's passing. Yeah, Padme has the hit out on her too. That hit is much more likely to be about her history with the Trade Federation (now part of Dooku's Confederacy) than it is to do with Palpatine's possible plans for Anakin. I think controlling the hermits is out of the question. "They" attacked the homestead just before dawn, sometime before Anakin's arrival (perhaps even weeks before). Moisture farmers have much to fear from the Raiders continuing into the time frame of ANH.

Just my opinion. :Pirate:

[chewie]

Well, we do know that Palpatine wanted the Trade Federation to take control of Naboo, suceed or no, but it so happened that Anakin was one of the main reasons for that not to happen. That had to have at least enraged Palpatine somewhat, even if his real goal was to become head of the senate. Also being a Sith, he can sense the force in others, and just like Yoda, sensed the fear in Anakin that he had in TPM. Which makes Anakin a perfect candidate for sith training now that Palpatine has lost his apprentice. Also knowing that Obi-Wan, who killed his apprentice Maul is also training Anakin to become a jedi, may have pushed him to murder Anakin's mother. There are several reasons for him to do it anyway. Either being intentions of revenge on Anakin, or simply as a method of turning him to the dark side of the force to later serve as his apprentice.

[Co Jo-Da]

Man, there are some good theories floating around in here. I think the Shmi is captured by the Tuskens as a warning to other Moisture Farmers to stay out of the dessert. But it just so happens that Shmi's son is a Jedi, whom is having visions of her being in pain. Anakin wants to go to Tatooine badly but Obi-Wan won't let him because of all the trouble the galaxy is in. When the first attack on Pademe' occurs at the beginning of thew film, Anakin is sidetrack because of his feelings for Pademe.

When Anakin and Obi-Wan split up after the second assassination on Pademe. Anakin takes her back to Naboo when they get to know each other better. But Anakins visions don't go away; they get worst, he feels time is running out. So he convinces Pademe to go with him to Tatooine.

After running into old buddies (like Watto), Anakin finds out that his Mother is married and living on the out-skirts. When they finally catch up to the Larrs, he finds out his mother is missing. ‘It was just before dawn, they came out of nowhere.’

Anakin is on a mission to find his mother before its too late. As sun sets on Tatooine, Anakin closes in on Shmi. I think that when he finally finds the tribe, Shmi is still alive but is kill right before Anakin can save her. In a rage Anakin kills anyone and everyone in sight. He blames him-self and he blames Obi-Wan for not letting him go sooner.

Palpatine will later use Anakin’s anger to his advantage and he might blame it on Count Dooku, in an effort to convert Anakin to the Dark Side in Episode III. But Palpatine was not behind Shmi’s death. It was just a wrong place, at the wrong time situation.

[Tycho]

I really am agreeing with what JEDI CLINT said, and Co Jo-Da sort of keeps the same train of thought going on that.

Jedi Clint: "For all his good will he is paid back by having his mother murdered by savages."

Very good thinking. I also think Palpatine is too busy to be bothered with Anakin's mother. Maybe. However, by taking everything he loves away from him, and setting up Obi-Wan to blame, Palpatine does gain some advantages. It depends on some things.

1) Yes Maul was Sidious / Palpatine's apprentice, but he was only a patsy. You can't have someone with tattoos all over their face later representative of a legitimate government. Palpatine's whole deal is that he's legally elected, and thus setting up a way to legitimize his Empire. As Emperor, early on, he will still be loved by the populace. They won't know the truth. Through the whole prequel era, most "Joe-Blows" on Tatooine will think he's a good-guy, and the Jedi are the bad ones to blame.

2) Darth Tyranus was Palpatine's REAL apprentice, and maybe he loves the irony of turning young Anakin into a weapon to 'off' Count Dooku, so the apprentice doesn't fancy any chance that he can kill off the master. In spoilers I've read, YODA determines that Dooku is a real Sith, and against what we've come to think about Yoda's pacifism, the ancient Jedi Master decides it's in their best interest if he kills Count Dooku! The Dark Count escapes because in desperation, he collaspses a loading crane on Obi-Wan and Anakin, and Yoda is distracted by saving them. Anakin may lose his arm in this situation, if he hasn't already. Dooku escapes to return in Episode 3 (and face Darth Vader?)

By then Palpatine's Empire is evolving and he no longer needs a politically correct enforcer / apprentice. (or has no choice, due to Vader's injuries - and killing the Chosen One once he's already a Sith, seems to Palpatine to be a waste of resources - especially if he keeps Vader behind the scenes for a while (like Darth Maul).

In any case, back to Shmi, maybe Palpatine was going to do something to her, and by chance, the Tusken Raiders beat him to it.

What do you think?

[Co Jo-Da]

Originally posted by Tycho
In any case, back to Shmi, maybe Palpatine was going to do something to her, and by chance, the Tusken Raiders beat him to it.

Sounds good to me...

[JEDIpartner]

I hear you guys and the plausible arguments you have brought before us regarding Palpatine's involvement in Anakin's fall to the darkside!

I firmly believe that, while Palpatine is NOT responsible for Shmi's death in some fashion, he uses this and many other things to nurture Anakin's anger and hatred. The most clever individuals can twist a situation or an emotion to make their prey feel they are a friend or a confidante. Palpatine will most likely use the frustrations in Anakin's life to draw him in and make him feel "safe" and understood. This will ultimately make it easier for Palpatine to tell Anakin that no one else understands him quite like HE does. Palpatine becomes the father figure and reveals his "secret identity" once he feels that there is no one else Anakin would wish to turn to for help or understanding.

[Fulit]

One of the reasons I think Palpatine is behind it is we've seen this happen before, someone innocent is slaughtered and the Tusken Raiders are made to be blamed for it. Remember the Jawas on Tatooine in ANH?
I think Palpatine pretty much knows everything that's going down with Anakin and everyone else, and he had Anakin's mom killed for one gain or another, either to eventually help seduce him to the Dark Side, or to keep him on Tatooine longer, to keep him and Obi-Wan separated. I just think there has to be some better plan to it than random, savage killing. Palpatine has his hands in everything else going on in the galaxy, why not this? It would just further seal this guy's utter evil-ness.

[Jedi Clint]

Thank you Tycho! I can honestly say that (IMO) this is one of the best discussions I have participated in of late. I would like to thank all who have contributed to it.

:Pirate: Yohoho and a bottle of brass monkey!:Pirate:

[Jargo]

I think possiblt Shmi is taken as a mate for a tusken when they attacked the homestead. This is why the female tuskens are involved in AOTC. The Tuskens find their mates by ramsacking homesteads and fringe townships for females to mate with. The life of the Nomad is tough in the desert and many female children don't survive the harshness. With more male tuskens surviving it seems the only way of breeding is to capture a 'human' female. Which could also be a tusken initiation ritual for youths coming of age.
Anyway, Shmi is captured to breed with a tusken and is beaten savagely for not complying. The constant abuse by the tusken - who must mate to prove himself a worthy warrior - is what eventually kills Shmi. A long drawn out and painful death which makes the tragedy more unbearable for Anakin and more of a catalyst for his turning to the dark side. Shmi's protracted death is finally at a close as Anakin turns up and Shmi says she knew he would come for her. (speculation)
The only way Palpatine could make this happen is to simply stir up the tuskens by desecrating their holy land. He couldn't directly have a hand in it but an agent of his could do the dirty and mess with the heads of the local tribes. Stir them up enough to attack local homesteads......

That's all I can think of right now.

[Tycho]

Jargo, that's almost a 'rape situation' and while I believe the Tuskens do engage in this kind of thing from time to time to allow their tribe to survive, I don't think Lucas would address this in a Star Wars movie.

Furthermore, in oder for a Tusken woman to want to care for her offspring in the tribe, etc. - and not run away at the first chance she'd get, I believe that the Tuskens only take the youngest female children, raise them as Tuskens - so their loyalty remains to the tribe, and then when they are old enough, choose mates for them. It's further been established that Tuskens will choose only 1 mate, so long as both partners are surviving - marriage in effect.

Shmi Skywalker might be too old to have any more children by now. as well as nothing on their world says to anyone, Tusken or otherwise, that she will remain with the tribe and have a child in their group. Plus they would not allow breeding stock to die.

I think she is held captive for some other reason: hostage, a lesson being taught to the farmers, ransom, etc.

[Co Jo-Da]

I have to agree Tycho... Sandpeople have a very hard life aspecially for women and I sure from time to time the men get a little 'ANCY FOR SOME ACTION' but I doubt that they would go through the trouble of kidnapping. Shmi was taken for a reason but the reason doesn't have to be Palpatine's doing.

[The 'Xir]

I don't know, It seems like a lot of you think that Palpatine isn't involved, but I don't know how he couldn't be! I mean I understand and can follow all your theories above, but you gotta remember this is the same guy that was orchestrating every last detail of TPM! I mean if he does have some 'Grand Design', and is seriously looking at Anakin as even a possible "next" apprentice it seems like he'd do anything to convert the young but powerful Jedi to the darkside! Once he finds out that this kids mother means everything to him, I think it just is logical that Palpatine would have Shmi killed for the very reason of bringing his anger to a boil then have it look like the Jedi are responsible in some way and then seduce him to his "side"! Oh, and I'm not saying that Palpatine will be directly involved, but get this..: Maybe, Palpatine has Dooku run a misssion to Tatooine, and instructs him to use those good ole Jedi mind tricks on some mindless fools like the Tusken Raiders to set this plan into motion! So Palpatine would be 3rd removed from this hideous plot, and that's how he could orchestrate it from SO far away! I mean if Dooku carries it out then why would anyone suspect Palps! This would also Account for Anakin and Dooku fighting at the end. Palpatine could set Dooku up, letting Anakin find out that it was really Dooku that was responsible for his mothers death and this would just furthur the trust between Ani and Palps, and set up Ani to move into his rightful place at Palpatines side! It might not play out like that exactly, but it just seems too obvious to me!:crazed:

[Tycho]

The'Xir has some good theories he's arriving at logically.

You're right Jedi Clint, this is a head-spinning, well-thought-out discussion. Everyone has good ideas that sound reasonable.

[master jedi]

The way view it is that Palpatine/Sidious made it look like Tusken Raiders killed Anakins mother. Sort of like a flashback to ANH with the Jawas and Owen & Beru.

[Jedi Clint]

The difference in this situation is that Anakin finds his mother alive, but in bad shape in a Raider camp. So how did Palpatine arrange that? If someone wished to frame another for a murder, they had better make sure the victim is dead.

[Fulit]

Originally posted by master jedi
Sort of like a flashback to ANH with the Jawas and Owen & Beru.

That's kind of what I was trying to say in my previous post in this thread.

[Co Jo-Da]

Originally posted by Jedi Clint
The difference in this situation is that Anakin finds his mother alive, but in bad shape in a Raider camp. So how did Palpatine arrange that? If someone wished to frame another for a murder, they had better make sure the victim is dead.

That's what I've trying to say... In the long run Palpatine will use what happens to Shmi to his advantage but he didn't have anything to do for it...