Distinguishing between news and advertisement

[zeroplate]

Am I the only one who gets annoyed that SSG seems to be becoming more and more just an excuse for Master Replicas to sell lightsaber props? There seems to be an inordinant amount of 'news' items about MR products, and the one posted today where MR spins a sales pitch for their wares into a friendly collector advisory is just too much. I hope that news features are part of the sponsorship deal that MR has with SSG, because they get as many 'news' stories as just about anything else.

I realize that I can skip over these and not click on them, but what bothers me is the use of the word 'news' or the pretense that SSG is just an unbiased information source when MR is obviously taking advantage of slow news days to get in extra plugs for their stuff. It's not enough that there's a pop-under ad? C'mon, those are lame and when coupled with the MR agenda of 'locking away' product that could otherwise be sold to create a false scarcity situation-- well, it turns me off from even considering a replica and from returning to SSG to boot.

[SirSteve]

I considered it "news" as they are almost sold out and wanted to make sure collectors knew about it. As for the pop-under, it's only 1 and it only pops-under once every 12 hours.

[stillakid]

Originally posted by SirSteve
I considered it "news" as they are almost sold out and wanted to make sure collectors knew about it.

"Sold out"? As Zeroplate suggested, this false notion that these things have a limit is just a pretense for increased sales. Hardly "newsworthy" if held to any kind of real-world journalistic standard.

But if you want to give them free ad time, it's your site. :)

(I don't suppose I'd get a frontpage slot if my custom figures suddenly became rare and ready to go back into the "vault"?)

[JediTricks]

Stilla, by that POV a lot of the news we report wouldn't be news. We report on Star Wars movies and on Hasbro and Lego toys, that could be considered advertising for those companies which are controlling the scaricity of their products too. Hasbro could be sending out cases of JUST Ephant Mon if they wanted, but obviously they don't want to - does that mean we should stop reporting all Hasbro news because they're manipulating the market? I thought those Ani FX sabers were supposed to be non-limited items that they'd just keep selling until nobody wanted 'em too, but would you rather the collecting community NOT know that they're going away?

[zeroplate]

Well, JediTricks, I think you are mixing up two issues. The problem I see is that Master Replicas is obviously a big sponsor of SSG. It's only natural to report news about goings-on with entities that are trying to sell products and make money. If you eliminated all THAT, you wouldn't have any news.

However, MR is obviously a big sponsor of SSG. And in this case, the tactic of a company making intentionally limited items and using that 'scarcity' as a major selling point (as MR does on it's website etc) is really just a marketing gimmick, and coverage of it on SSG amounts to more advertising.

Look at it this way for SSG: you are losing out on potential ad revenue from MR by running that 'news' story. If this is a new marketing/sales initiative, in the rest of the world, MR would be forced to take out special ads talking about the limited quantities of these items etc. They should be sending you new banner and pop up ads that they are paying for that use this sales tactic, but instead they are only sending you press releases and getting their message across for free. To me, that's a case of SSG getting played.

I don't think I'd mind so much if there weren't so many topics about MR. Personally, I think all of the news items that are sponsor-sales related are a bit dubious. It's not a public service, as it has been presented in these posts, to inform the collecting public about a money-making opportunity for the companies that profit from the collecting hobby. A public service would entail delivering news that is meant specifically to benefit the collectors, and in these cases, these press releases are being sent to you not for the benefit of the collectors, but for the benefit of the companies trying to hock their goods. The fact that MR is pulling a Disney stunt of "we're taking the rest of our inventory and putting it back in 'the vault'" just happens to be EXTRA dubious since it's a much more manipulative move than anything you've described by companies like Hasbro and Lego. Hasbro and Lego are out for money just like anyone, don't get me wrong, but they don't stand to gain anything by holding product back. The fact that they can't always sell it and get it distributed effectively is not a matter of design. :) On the other hand, a company like MR is toying with the notion of supply and demand, creating an artificial market for their own products so that they can be sold for more later. That, to me, is just screwing the potential collector, and there's no way around it.

Anyway, I'm glad someone at least reads this thread. And on the topic of pop unders: I don't think the frequency of the pop under is related to its inherent lack of respect for visitors. It's insulting to the intelligence of your visitors that you would have the ad pop under the main browser window to FORCE them to look at it. If people want MR lightsaber props, they know darn well how to find them through the other ads and news on the site, and there's no need to force the issue with what is widely regarded as a shady web-marketing trick.

[SirSteve]

Look at our site compared to others. Do the others separate their "Sponsor News" like we do? I can't stand to read through tons of advertisements in the middle of the "real" news. If I feel it's newsworthy, it makes it to the "Latest News". You also don't have to buy from Master Replicas... many of our other advertisers sell them as well. Believe me, we try to balance our sponsors the best we can. We are working on a feature that will let you choose which news topics you want to view.

As for the pop-unders, no one is "forcing" you to look at them. They pop UNDER AND they DISAPPEAR if you don't click it within 60 seconds, it closes itself. How many other sites would do that? These advertisers keep SSG running in many ways. Server costs, programming, events, etc.... The OFFICIAL StarWars.com site has ads everywhere and a lot of them are not Star Wars NOR toy related. Do you think they need the money??

[JediTricks]

Zeroplate, for me it is 2 different issues. Whether MR is an advertiser here or not is immaterial to me, as a reporter this info that these SW items are disappearing soon is newsworthy to the collector community.

SSG used to have Hasbro as an advertiser too, Lego has advertised as well - I never got complaints before when I relayed info about Lego retiring certain SW sets (nearly all of them have been retired BTW).

MR makes Star Wars collectibles, their business practices are their own. I don't have to agree with these policies to report on issues that come out of their offices. There are plenty of business practices I don't like about Hasbro, Lego, even Lucasfilm, but I'm not going to avoid posting news related to SW products when that's the general point of the site simply because I don't agree with how these companies manipulate the market. Ultimately, the bottom line is that it's still news.

[stillakid]

Hmm, while I understand your point JT, I have to agree with Zero. Certainly there is a large swath of gray area to contend with when dealing with "collecting news" particularly when what we are collecting is sold by merchandisers.

But Master Replica's ploy of "vaulting" their product is clearly a manufactured attempt to justify the high initial price and to keep the manufactured value up over time. That's their perojative of course, but this specific instance certainly seems to be at the "advertising" end of the spectrum moreso than being genuine "news." Clearly there are no hard and fast rules for any of this, so a certain amount of personal judgment has to come into play.

Master Replicas is clearly taking advantage of collectors in general and SSG appears to be an unwitting player in their scheme.


As for Steve's comments, I agree with them. Ad's are a necessary element for many things in life. Personally I see more sense in Pop-unders than pop-overs. While I prefer neither, I am 100% more likely to get angry at a pop-over and the advertiser as I am clicking the go-away box. On the other hand, a pop-under doesn't interfere with what I am doing and just sits there quietly waiting for me to be finished. While I might not read it still, I am more likely to at least glance at it for an extra second as I go for the X. :)

[JediTricks]

Stilla, I won't disagree with you on the vaulting issue no matter what company does it, but I don't see how SSG is culpable for the manufacturer's actions - if MR wasn't an advertiser, we'd still be reporting this news. When any SW site posts news of (for example) Suncoast only offering a limited number of R2-D2:Behind the Dome DVDs, I don't see how those sites are actively part of the problem whether Suncoast advertises there or not.

[zeroplate]

Steve- I wasn't aware that the pop unders went away after 60 seconds. I guess I've been conditioned to track them down and kill them since I find them annoying and they are usually, on other sites, related to obnoxious products or promotions. I'm glad you have them set to disappear, but I'd be careful using the argument of 'StarWars.com site has ads everywhere' because it sounds a lot like 'they are doing it, so why can't we?' which I think we can all agree is a bad way to justify doing something.

Believe me, I understand the need for sponsors, and I wish you the best of luck keeping the site going because I check it out several times a day. I appreciate most of the content here and I have visited (though never purchased from) several of your sponsors.

As for the debate over news... I think the distinction between news and marketing and entertainment is almost completely lost in most contemporary media, so it's no suprise to see marketing initiatives turned press releases turned news stories everywhere. When companies like Fox and AOLTimeWarner report 'news' and also create content, there are bound to be dubious associations. The only thing that suprises me anymore is that more people aren't aware of how these systems of manipulation work. JT, if you don't see how sites that promote sponsor actions like intentionally low-balling their production to create demand are contributing to the problem, let me just offer this: if companies like MR or others who create a manipulative balance of supply and demand for 'collectibles' are able to get their message out as easily as sending press releases to fan-run websites, there is nothing to stop them from continuing on that track. If you don't really agree with those kinds of practices, the easy way you can step up is by forcing the companies who have chosen those paths to either pay for advertising, or find other ways to sell their products. I realize it's an incredibly anti-capitalist thing to say, but I'd like to think we can live in a world where manufacturers make an honest effort to make a living by supplying demand, not by baiting it.

Thanks, gentlemen, for your responses. If I liked everything you ever did here, the world would be a boring place. :)

[stillakid]

Originally posted by JediTricks
Stilla, I won't disagree with you on the vaulting issue no matter what company does it, but I don't see how SSG is culpable for the manufacturer's actions - if MR wasn't an advertiser, we'd still be reporting this news. When any SW site posts news of (for example) Suncoast only offering a limited number of R2-D2:Behind the Dome DVDs, I don't see how those sites are actively part of the problem whether Suncoast advertises there or not.

Hmm, I shall meditate on this.....